Positives and cons in simulation/sandbox games

[BLucy]

There are quite a handful of simulation/sandbox games around, I've played some myself, not suffering them all, but just a few hitting the nail for me; a game may drag a simple prologue for too long, another could do with a quicker buying page, or being too obtuse or too straight forward in its decisions...
My question is, what things have you seen that have bothered you or even made you quit the game all together? What is that instant boost for a game in your book?

 

[aereton]

What I find grating in most sandbox type games are that the worlds almost always feel empty.

Rarely are there random passersby and LIs often don't inhabit the world but exist somewhere "on the cloud" materializing once you've started an event or something that involves them.

Having played Shattered Minds recently, what I absolutely love about the game is that you can invite LIs you've added to your harem to live in your home. They don't even do that much while they are there, but it's nice to see that they have their own schedule, taking a shower in the morning for example or sitting in your room.

While the above example certainly appeases more to my Pokemon-collectathon-addled brain, having characters just follow their own schedule, physically inhabiting the area they are supposed to be in (as opposed to just having an avatar with their head exist somewhere in the UI) adds much needed life and authenticity to these type of games.

Bonus points if they wear different outfits every now and then.

 

[sbeve_bupkis]

Sandbox design for H-games is a developer trap like 90% of the time. Even the best sandboxes inevitably devolve into something more kinetic when the dev has to run the football, because most devs lose track of what motivates players. Sandbox might theoretically be the ideal for making "a forever game" that you can make endless updates forever while getting patreon money, but the graveyard of abandoned sandbox games on this site should warn people away from trying that without a really good idea of what they are doing.

sandbox games are best for harems (or reverse harems) where you can present several options for the player to interact with based on their personal preference. The ideal sandbox is basically its own RPG system, with freedom to engage with a game world as you see fit (i think masters of raana is the best example of this, but i don't really enjoy the kinks that game heavily focuses on, so it's not worth playing). Read that again: the literal best example I could think of is not worth playing because it's too heavily focused on kinks that don't interest me. Think really hard before spending a ton of energy on scoping out a sandbox.

So like, if your goal is to have a wide selection of scenes, lots of different body types, lots of different kinks (even mutually exclusive kinks like sharing vs hard NTR, or wholesome romance vs aggro male dom), then a sandbox is a good idea. even then, the second you start dedicating more time to one track rather than another, you're fucking up the whole reason to use sandbox design

if your goal is to develop an extensive relationship with one character, or a smaller cast (like less than 3) than you should strongly consider NOT using a sandbox. It's a trade off. If you make a sandbox, you are letting go of the direct chain of actions a player might take. If you want players to experience a steady paced series of encounters (say gradual corruption, gradual seduction, or befriending an initially hostile character) just make a good kinetic novel instead. there's no reason to completely surrender control over to the player to pace themselves, just for the player to get annoyed because evreything has stupid checks like "mornings only do this, afternoons only do this, evenings talk to this one, oh no you need to advance several in game days to get the $$$ required." that's just a kinetic novel with extra timewasting steps!

sandbox should be, here's where these 5+ different characters hang out, which one do you want to see first? that's it really. if your story is long and heavily gatekept by conditions, you might be better off just writing the story out in advance and structuring it FOR the player, rather than hoping that the player decides to play it the way you imagined

 

[BLucy]

What I find grating in most sandbox type games are that the worlds almost always feel empty.

Rarely are there random passersby and LIs often don't inhabit the world but exist somewhere "on the cloud" materializing once you've started an event or something that involves them.

Having played Shattered Minds recently, what I absolutely love about the game is that you can invite LIs you've added to your harem to live in your home. They don't even do that much while they are there, but it's nice to see that they have their own schedule, taking a shower in the morning for example or sitting in your room.

While the above example certainly appeases more to my Pokemon-collectathon-addled brain, having characters just follow their own schedule, physically inhabiting the area they are supposed to be in (as opposed to just having an avatar with their head exist somewhere in the UI) adds much needed life and authenticity to these type of games.

Bonus points if they wear different outfits every now and then.

Yeah! I do also enjoy coming across characters while I'm around different places and not just having to call them or text them to interact or hang out outside of scripted events. Although I think for me is more of a nice detail but it's not that bad IF I have other things to pay attention, as more often than not, finding them around the world (randomly or within tveir schedules) leads to a "you hang out for a while" kind of text or a handful of lines (like " 'hey! Come look this squirrel' you spend some time trying to catch the squirrel" which I find a better option). There is a game however that was set in a school I think? I don't remember the name, bit I found it interesting because, for what I remember, there were many randomly generated background characters, aside from a small cast with plots, and you could talk, flirt, joke, insult... and improve or worsen the relationship. That one was very interesting in that aspect.

I'll check out Shatered Minds!

 

[BLucy]

Sandbox design for H-games is a developer trap like 90% of the time. Even the best sandboxes inevitably devolve into something more kinetic when the dev has to run the football, because most devs lose track of what motivates players. Sandbox might theoretically be the ideal for making "a forever game" that you can make endless updates forever while getting patreon money, but the graveyard of abandoned sandbox games on this site should warn people away from trying that without a really good idea of what they are doing.

sandbox games are best for harems (or reverse harems) where you can present several options for the player to interact with based on their personal preference. The ideal sandbox is basically its own RPG system, with freedom to engage with a game world as you see fit (i think masters of raana is the best example of this, but i don't really enjoy the kinks that game heavily focuses on, so it's not worth playing). Read that again: the literal best example I could think of is not worth playing because it's too heavily focused on kinks that don't interest me. Think really hard before spending a ton of energy on scoping out a sandbox.

So like, if your goal is to have a wide selection of scenes, lots of different body types, lots of different kinks (even mutually exclusive kinks like sharing vs hard NTR, or wholesome romance vs aggro male dom), then a sandbox is a good idea. even then, the second you start dedicating more time to one track rather than another, you're fucking up the whole reason to use sandbox design

if your goal is to develop an extensive relationship with one character, or a smaller cast (like less than 3) than you should strongly consider NOT using a sandbox. It's a trade off. If you make a sandbox, you are letting go of the direct chain of actions a player might take. If you want players to experience a steady paced series of encounters (say gradual corruption, gradual seduction, or befriending an initially hostile character) just make a good kinetic novel instead. there's no reason to completely surrender control over to the player to pace themselves, just for the player to get annoyed because evreything has stupid checks like "mornings only do this, afternoons only do this, evenings talk to this one, oh no you need to advance several in game days to get the $$$ required." that's just a kinetic novel with extra timewasting steps!

sandbox should be, here's where these 5+ different characters hang out, which one do you want to see first? that's it really. if your story is long and heavily gatekept by conditions, you might be better off just writing the story out in advance and structuring it FOR the player, rather than hoping that the player decides to play it the way you imagined

I do agree that there are many sandox games with the abandon tag or in development hell (and games in general, as the ones that come to mind right now in that state are not too much of a sandbox or simulation either), and although there are many (maaany) harem games, not all good ones are (reverse/) harem oriented (as I usually try to avoid those), eventhough most aren’t monogamus either.

I played recently Class of '09 with no idea of what I was getting myself into and I greatly enjoyed it, as some other VNs I've played, it's just that lately I've been palying more of sandbox type games with some differences here and there, other many similarities and yet I find it really hard for one of them to hit the nail for me. I found one that started off very well but, like with Masters of Raana for you (now I have to see what's that about), it developed too heavily on certain topics that pushed me out completly.

I do think like you in that having a world to explore but it's all empty except for the next place you have to go in the plot (and you waist time clicking around looking for something to do or where to go next), or having to grind boring work shifts so you can buy x thing to advance the plot is pointless and I'm afraid that's where many games end up stuck and dying. But there are other things that to me are great and I don't understand why is not everyone doing it, or annoying and it bores me quicker, like, for example, when time doesn't depends on your energy/number of actions (meaning that each thing you do is measured in minutes/hours instead of number of actions per day or energy points) but you can't regain energy except for a little bit when spending money on energy drinks/coffee.