VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.999] [WeirdWorld]

[OnlineRando]

You've triggered my pet peeve!

The idea of "God = superhuman" is a trope I find incredibly unsatisfying and boring. It degrades the idea of a divine creator who is omnipotent and omniscient into just some dude with magic powers. Even in mythology, a strong distinction is borne between the creator entity (Chaos, Ginnungagap, Atum), and their children/spawn that end up being colloquially referred to as gods.

The Apostles/Chosen are gods only in the sense that they are worshiped, but they do not have what would be considered a divine nature. At BEST, we can call them demigods if we wish to assume the whole One God -> Two Outer Twins -> Two Arbiter Triplets -> Six Apostle Twins hierarchy is true, but even then they would be an avatar of an avatar of an avatar of God.

And as a side tangent to my side tangent, I don't think the idea of God being illogical due to omnipotence being self-refuting is actually a strong case for Him not to exist. Humans naturally attempt to shape logic to best fit the natural world, so if something is illogical, what that actually ends up meaning is "cannot arise from the natural world". Which... yeah. God doesn't come from the natural, he is supernatural. He is above, beyond, and independent of the natural world. The idea that God is somehow subservient to human constructed logic is laughable.

I don't see how an actual character and/or factor in a story being treated as a god/referred to as such is in any way inferior to an outside entity that never does anything for the story; a non-factor, beyond creating everything for no reason. And it's usually even worse when that god DOES interfere, because it doesn't make sense for an omnipotent being to have any reason to play with beings that inferior.

Meanwhile, an actual force in the story that is treated as, or acts as, a god but is not omnipotent and omniscient, can create some incredibly interesting narratives.

And I don't mean to bash your religion, but anything supposedly nonsensical and/or illogical firstly needs to be proven as such. And even if something really IS that transcendent, that is only proven to be so relatively.

A game developer can make a game, and within that game, a statement there that they are the creator of all things, omnipotent and omniscient, and to the characters within the game that is mostly true. However, in the real world, they are a regular human with a specific skill that doesn't exactly make them cosmically superior to anyone, or anything, else.

Regardless, this isn't the place for religious ideologies. My point is, an omnipotent creator god is almost never interesting. The thing that is interesting is how others treat something they believe to be a god, and that can be done with an actual in story force instead of something that will either never interfere, or make the story weird BY interfering for seemingly no reason.

 

[-Maniackanime-]

Well, define god. Depending on your definition, the apostles, and to an extent even the chosen, might very much be gods.

Are they Omnipotent? Maybe not, but even in mythologies, gods rarely are. Even in modern religions, the omnipotence of its god is contradicted by certain things that exist within said religion.

Personally, I do consider the apostles to be gods, if only because they are worshipped by other monsters.

On point, as I was saying my comment, I was thinking of making my pure skill MC to go against powerful beings. As a side note I have watched Records of Ragnarok, those who watched it/read it, might get my thinking. Also this isn't twitter, we live our fantasy here, tho I don't mind the chaos/arguments caused by everyone's strong personality to share their view in certain topics. I'll just say my side as well.

 

[OnlineRando]

On point, as I was saying my comment, I was thinking of making my pure skill MC to go against powerful beings. As a side note I have watched Records of Ragnarok, those who watched it/read it, might get my thinking. Also this isn't twitter, we live our fantasy here, tho I don't mind the chaos/arguments caused by everyone's strong personality to share their view in certain topics. I'll just say my side as well.

If you liked the anime, I recommend that you read the manga instead. It's much better in every way.

 

[KyngC]

I think its pretty evident that the apostles and chosens ARE NOT gods. They are simply mega powerful monsters.

Yeah pretty sure the Apostles are just pieces of God. During memory section we even see the Apostles say they are part of god. IE God's insight or God's form.

 

[Grimnir098]

You've triggered my pet peeve!

The idea of "God = superhuman" is a trope I find incredibly unsatisfying and boring. It degrades the idea of a divine creator who is omnipotent and omniscient into just some dude with magic powers. Even in mythology, a strong distinction is borne between the creator entity (Chaos, Ginnungagap, Atum), and their children/spawn that end up being colloquially referred to as gods.

The Apostles/Chosen are gods only in the sense that they are worshiped, but they do not have what would be considered a divine nature. At BEST, we can call them demigods if we wish to assume the whole One God -> Two Outer Twins -> Two Arbiter Triplets -> Six Apostle Twins hierarchy is true, but even then they would be an avatar of an avatar of an avatar of God.

And as a side tangent to my side tangent, I don't think the idea of God being illogical due to omnipotence being self-refuting is actually a strong case for Him not to exist. Humans naturally attempt to shape logic to best fit the natural world, so if something is illogical, what that actually ends up meaning is "cannot arise from the natural world". Which... yeah. God doesn't come from the natural, he is supernatural. He is above, beyond, and independent of the natural world. The idea that God is somehow subservient to human constructed logic is laughable.

There being a distinction between the creator entity and their spawn is irrelevant. They're all still gods.
So how are the Apostles different to the beings referred to as gods (e.g. Zeus, Thor, Vishnu, Perun, etc) in our mythologies, such that we shouldn't call them gods?

Seems like you just don't like them being referred to as gods because it puts them on the same level as your god (Yahweh). Not a very good reason for anyone who doesn't follow an Abrahamic religion to not refer to them as gods.

 

[Shaun@121]

I am a little confused and sorry for asking but "Apostle are pieces of a god/gods " isn't it already mentioned in the game by someone
And one more dumb question what is Arbiters? That eye is Arbiters thing or a part of it ?

 

[One_Black_Sun]

I am a little confused and sorry for asking but "Apostle are pieces of a god/gods " isn't it already mentioned in the game by someone
And one more dumb question what is Arbiters? That eye is Arbiters thing or a part of it ?

Arbiters were the things the Apostles were before they split into twins. 6 became 12. It's very much unknown what the Eye actually is, but people theorize a lot. It could be the Arbiter the MC is meant to be - the Evolution - trying to break free, or it could just be the MC's monster side; there's no real concrete answer, and the dev always answers halfheartedly.

 

[KKStrider]

I am a little confused and sorry for asking but "Apostle are pieces of a god/gods " isn't it already mentioned in the game by someone
And one more dumb question what is Arbiters? That eye is Arbiters thing or a part of it ?

We don't really have a lot of information on them, but they seem to be pre-apostle gods that we suspect were composite beings made up of sets of twin Apostles. It's just an out-of-universe theory not confirmed by characters in story. However, considering the eye's apparent influence over Body and Memory, it possessing a form of acausality that let remember events across Dead Ends and the Arbiters constantly coming up in the plot, we heavily suspect the eye is one.

Further lending evidence to the theory is the existence of Order, a power that relies on inheritance and mastery over both Authority and Power's traits that just straight up lets you rewrite the laws of the universe. The power is mentioned by Aglaecwif to be supremely powerful but require an impractical amount of energy to use. A power of that level would be difficult for a superhuman to use, but not for the eye, which has shown itself to possess near limitless access to Monster Power though a connection to the Higher Plane, where the divinity of the Superhuman universe's true forms reside. When the MC connects to each Apostle on the paths to god in the immaterial plane, each set of twin apostle's description mentions a repeating theme. Authority and Power both mention Order, but the other twin sets - listed in ascending numerical order - mention Evolution, Infinity, Soul, Paradox and Chaos. Thus we suspect that the eye is not only an Arbiter, but the Arbiter of Evolution specifically, trying to reconstitute itself through a near perfect inheritor of its divided traits.

 

[obibobi]

There being a distinction between the creator entity and their spawn is irrelevant. They're all still gods.
So how are the Apostles different to the beings referred to as gods (e.g. Zeus, Thor, Vishnu, Perun, etc) in our mythologies, such that we shouldn't call them gods?

Seems like you just don't like them being referred to as gods because it puts them on the same level as your god (Yahweh). Not a very good reason for anyone who doesn't follow an Abrahamic religion to not refer to them as gods.

You're looking at it too mechanically, a story isn't an instruction manual, how you handle things changes the tone of the story, like how you depict a monster, not scary in this because its from the perspective of a super powered guy with regeneration but if the story was told from the perspective or a powerless woman it would be a lot scarier.

A deity in a story, being left vague and being far removed or only influencing events from a distance can be this mysterious force.

 

[pettyparade]

Did I miss a sadist tag somewhere? This SIN twins storyline is fucking awful and makes no sense in world outside "author wanted this to happen". You're telling me the batch of test subject kids are just chillin with the son of their creator/tormenter letting him do the same shit? Lmfao oooooooook

 

[lg545]

This SIN twins storyline is fucking awful and makes no sense in world outside "author wanted this to happen". You're telling me the batch of test subject kids are just chillin with the son of their creator/tormenter letting him do the same shit? Lmfao oooooooook

Tanos create them and process was different. Point is - they were starving orphans and he make them strong and rich

 

[Grimnir098]

Did I miss a sadist tag somewhere? This SIN twins storyline is fucking awful and makes no sense in world outside "author wanted this to happen". You're telling me the batch of test subject kids are just chillin with the son of their creator/tormenter letting him do the same shit? Lmfao oooooooook

I'm pretty sure it's shown that the kids (Cole aside) actually had a pretty positive impression of Tanos during the time Bramon was experimenting on them.
It's possible they're unaware (again, with the exception of Cole) what is being done to Amber and Liz.

 

[Grimnir098]

You're looking at it too mechanically, a story isn't an instruction manual, how you handle things changes the tone of the story, like how you depict a monster, not scary in this because its from the perspective of a super powered guy with regeneration but if the story was told from the perspective or a powerless woman it would be a lot scarier.

A deity in a story, being left vague and being far removed or only influencing events from a distance can be this mysterious force.

You haven't told me anything I don't already know.
If you're trying to make a point about the Apostles, I suggest actually making it instead of beating around the bush.

 

[Landro2340]

Anyone else feel the MC will have to eat Syla (Memory) and Ella (Body) in order to reach completion?, while Syla is dead, she hinted that her corpse is intact and its possible HERO has it (Im guessing). In Ella's case, we've been hinted that there will be a fight between her and the MC in the future, I assume it will be like Kenny/Bailey/Danica/Jake where the option to eat her will show up.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Anyone else feel the MC will have to eat Syla (Memory) and Ella (Body) in order to reach completion?, while Syla is dead, she hinted that her corpse is intact and its possible HERO has it (Im guessing). In Ella's case, we've been hinted that there will be a fight between her and the MC in the future, I assume it will be like Kenny/Bailey/Danica/Jake where the option to eat her will show up.

I'm not sure about Syla, but I've definitely considered that there was a probable future where Ella lets the MC consume her after realizing her plans go through, which is probably on a corruption path.

 

[Landro2340]

I'm not sure about Syla, but I've definitely considered that there was a probable future where Ella lets the MC consume her after realizing her plans go through, which is probably on a corruption path.

I doubt she will just let it happen, like everything concerning her, she will fight the MC as a final test for it. It's the only reason I can think of why she tried hard to get MC strong with multiple tests before HERO got her. Corruption path or not.

 

[Shaun@121]

I mean didn't she said to cole that "she found the one she is looking for and he will take everything of her "or something like that

 

[Jonathan Y]

I doubt she will just let it happen, like everything concerning her, she will fight the MC as a final test for it. It's the only reason I can think of why she tried hard to get MC strong with multiple tests before HERO got her. Corruption path or not.

She wanted him to be as strong as possible because Ella serves the 3rd and 4th Apostle, and they, like all Apostles seek a worthy avatar, though they seem to be picky since they want their chosen to inherit both of their traits, body and memory, which the Mc has.

Right now Ella is the chosen of the 3rd and 4th as I see it, but she cannot be their avatar since she refused to finish the ritual by saving Christie, and because she for some reason simply is unable to inherit both of their traits, which is why she calls herself a failure and in one of the bad ends she straight up drags the Mc before the 4th, presumably for him to be consumed and serve as a avatar for them.
If the 3rd and 4th commanded her or she deems it necessary she would let the Mc consume her, Ella faithfully serves those two and their goals.

 

[Landro2340]

She wanted him to be as strong as possible because Ella serves the 3rd and 4th Apostle, and they, like all Apostles seek a worthy avatar, though they seem to be picky since they want their chosen to inherit both of their traits, body and memory, which the Mc has.

Right now Ella is the chosen of the 3rd and 4th as I see it, but she cannot be their avatar since she refused to finish the ritual by saving Christie, and because she for some reason simply is unable to inherit both of their traits, which is why she calls herself a failure and in one of the bad ends she straight up drags the Mc before the 4th, presumably for him to be consumed and serve as a avatar for them.
If the 3rd and 4th commanded her or she deems it necessary she would let the Mc consume her, Ella faithfully serves those two and their goals.

You know, I have always wondered if that was the case, then why did the following happen:

1) She at the beginning of the game had chosen Jake, James and Kenny. If she was serving the 3rd and 4th, and they wanted an avatar, why bother with those 3 then? During the frat party she even asks herself if it really had to be the MC. Now Jake I understand was a potential chosen for Authority, I doubt Body or Memory would let her chosen (Ella according to you) serve Authority's goals.

2) Didn't she tell the Body to fuck off once she reached LVL 5? That she was going to do things her own way? I don't know, I doubt she serves those two apostles at all and she wouldn't be the first one, we have seen Aos and Sylas not being fond of their apostles, so being a chosen doesn't mean that they have to follow their wishes. The 6th wants Aos killed after all.

With that being said, it would be dissapointing to not have a final clash between Ella and the MC, regardless of their relationship (hateful or romantic). I feel Ella herself could become the avatar of evolution since she can eat monsters/humans the same way the MC does. If MC loses that fight she could eat him and become evolution.

 

[Uriel ☁]

Ella's doll will consume Ella's dead body and regain her normal form. She still won't have all her memories and her previous lvl5 strength, but will be more akin to a lvl4. That way she won't have deus ex knowledge and she'll be in the power range of MC and the gang.

Much later in the story she'll have the natural lvl5 evolution that OG Ella never had (she used the serum) and regain all her memories.

Just my theory.