- Jun 21, 2017
- 6,626
- 19,124
Dear golly...
Kinetic novel/game I don't care what you want to call it because it does not matter in regards to my suggestion and point.
A protagonist that effects the story in major ways and actions directly influence the majority of the story = Main Protagonist.
A protagonist that has little effect on the story and is instead swept up and affected by it is a minor protagonist.
My cliff story was an example of this, I love how many got stuck on the multiple choice part...
This kinetic Novel sets the player view point for the majority as a minor protagonist.(Parker)
Parker actions have basically no effect on the majority of the story as it currently stands.
It has not so far mattered WHAT he chose to do because he never chose actions that influenced the major events of the story.
The "player" in this kinetic novel is a minor protagonist, even defaulting to his view point of events when he is involved.
If the majority of the content was set from the cops perspective then it would be set from a Main Protagonists view point.
Its not rocket science here.
I don't enjoy Novels/Games/Stories from the view point of weak pathetic characters. I understand there are people out there that do, more power to you.
I was just suggesting a tag to differentiate the two.
Kinetic novel/game I don't care what you want to call it because it does not matter in regards to my suggestion and point.
A protagonist that effects the story in major ways and actions directly influence the majority of the story = Main Protagonist.
A protagonist that has little effect on the story and is instead swept up and affected by it is a minor protagonist.
My cliff story was an example of this, I love how many got stuck on the multiple choice part...
This kinetic Novel sets the player view point for the majority as a minor protagonist.(Parker)
Parker actions have basically no effect on the majority of the story as it currently stands.
It has not so far mattered WHAT he chose to do because he never chose actions that influenced the major events of the story.
The "player" in this kinetic novel is a minor protagonist, even defaulting to his view point of events when he is involved.
If the majority of the content was set from the cops perspective then it would be set from a Main Protagonists view point.
Its not rocket science here.
I don't enjoy Novels/Games/Stories from the view point of weak pathetic characters. I understand there are people out there that do, more power to you.
I was just suggesting a tag to differentiate the two.
- Jan 16, 2019
- 159
- 85
That's a shame i hope you guys do consider adding incest in their i really like the story so far it did get me a bit uncomfortable at bits but thats good writing so kudos. i just hope that you guys don't go the route of being cruel to the male character in here for example angelica's temptation dev (saruh) did.
P.s sorry i am unable to support you guys currently i supported paperwork on patreon for 2 months then lost my job and life happens but hope to suuport you guys someday this year and i hope again for your consideration to add incest in this VN i mean if you want a taboo game why not go all out at some point i mean. keep up the good work.
- Sep 7, 2017
- 851
- 969
- Oct 13, 2016
- 2,763
- 9,235
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- Jan 7, 2020
- 596
- 632
Hi
I am definitely looking forward to mother being give riskier outfits / commands for school and maybe being prostituted, roll on the next update the sooner the better.
I am definitely looking forward to mother being give riskier outfits / commands for school and maybe being prostituted, roll on the next update the sooner the better.
- Jun 16, 2017
- 733
- 2,100
Rich Thank you for your work. Can you divulge if there will be any type of NTR content for Becky? I feel like there's a lot of potential in there.
- Jun 25, 2017
- 2,635
- 7,648
You're completely welcome!
While I completely understand your interest, you've probably figured out already that I don't tend to say much about where things are going. But I'm trying to make sure there's potential in a number of directions...
Rich, I liked your game don't get me wrong but I hate the feeling of helplessness (as the main protagonist) when the cops started to have the power over evryone. Please give the MC a chance to atleast follow his mom going towards the police station, by the looks of it, the recent update as it is, the MC just assumes his mom is ok and then only thinks of his own pleasure with becky and her mom. Atleast make him act like he cares for his mom's wellbeing and try to find out if both of them is being blackmailed. I liked it when his mom got blackmailed don't get me wrong, but to have it continue feels like that the police is the MC. I am no developer, and I'm thankful for the free game. Just trying to give my thoughts about the game.
- Jun 25, 2017
- 2,635
- 7,648
Thank you for the feedback. I completely understand the points you're making. I also appreciate the fact that they were made in the manner they were, as compared to some of the rants that were inflicted on this thread "back when" by, um, "displeased readers." LOL
So - some responses. (Warning - the mind of a developer can be A Dark And Scary Place. Proceed at your own risk... LOL)
First, on the "MC" front, when John and I started this, we made a conscious decision that this story was going to be told from two viewpoints - Parker's and Bill's. (And then we actually added Carl's for a while.) So, your comment about Bill feeling like a main character - particularly early on - is actually quite correct and, as I said, was a conscious decision. The earliest part focused somewhat more on Bill. More recent chapters have shifted more to Parker's POV, but you'll eventually see some oscillation back in the other direction. The characters each have their own motivations. If you restrict yourself to telling a story completely from one POV, it can sometimes be hard to bring out the other characters' motivations other than by long, unnatural-feeling expositions. So, this was the path we chose. If it doesn't end up working for you, apologies.
I also understand your "feeling of being trapped." This is, clearly, a direct consequence of the fact that this is a kinetic novel, not a game, so you're being taken along for the ride as we tell the story, and don't have choices in terms of (possibly) "who does what to who." I understand that the fact that this isn't a game has bothered many people, but this was also (obviously) a conscious choice. Given that John and I had never tackled a project anything like this before, we decided that we were going to keep things simpler, and not take on too much at one time. And I'm very glad we did, now that John has been forced to curtail his involvement. Writing is not my strongest suit. At the same time, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and want things to "make sense." (OK, yes, we stretch credibility in a few directions here, but I'm trying not to go completely off the reservation.) In any event, coming up with a single story line that satisfies me is hard enough - if I had 53 different branches to be dealing with right now, I'd probably have walked away in despair. Maybe after I'm done with this, I'll have the courage to attack something more ambitious. We'll see.
Finally, without giving too much away, I'll point out that this story is (hopefully) developing somewhat along the lines of a traditional novel. The first few chapters of any novel, inevitably, deal with "setup." Basically, "who is everybody, and how did we get into this mess." Once that's established, the novel typically shifts into a "ok, so where do things go from there" phase, and eventually to a "aaaaand, how did it all finish up" phase.
There's a famous quote from a Churchill speech:
(
You must be registered to see the links
)That's kind of where I feel things are right now - as of Chapter 6, most of what I would consider "setup work" is done - we know who all the major players are, their relationships to one another, and something about what's going on in their heads. So, when the dust settles and this is a distanct memory, I think this is around the point where we'd agree that we're pretty much done with the appetizers, and about to dig into some of the meat of the story. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen...
And now, ladies and gentlemen, we've completed our tour. The exit is to your left, through the gift shop. Have a nice day...
Thank you for the feedback. I completely understand the points you're making. I also appreciate the fact that they were made in the manner they were, as compared to some of the rants that were inflicted on this thread "back when" by, um, "displeased readers." LOL
So - some responses. (Warning - the mind of a developer can be A Dark And Scary Place. Proceed at your own risk... LOL)
First, on the "MC" front, when John and I started this, we made a conscious decision that this story was going to be told from two viewpoints - Parker's and Bill's. (And then we actually added Carl's for a while.) So, your comment about Bill feeling like a main character - particularly early on - is actually quite correct and, as I said, was a conscious decision. The earliest part focused somewhat more on Bill. More recent chapters have shifted more to Parker's POV, but you'll eventually see some oscillation back in the other direction. The characters each have their own motivations. If you restrict yourself to telling a story completely from one POV, it can sometimes be hard to bring out the other characters' motivations other than by long, unnatural-feeling expositions. So, this was the path we chose. If it doesn't end up working for you, apologies.
I also understand your "feeling of being trapped." This is, clearly, a direct consequence of the fact that this is a kinetic novel, not a game, so you're being taken along for the ride as we tell the story, and don't have choices in terms of (possibly) "who does what to who." I understand that the fact that this isn't a game has bothered many people, but this was also (obviously) a conscious choice. Given that John and I had never tackled a project anything like this before, we decided that we were going to keep things simpler, and not take on too much at one time. And I'm very glad we did, now that John has been forced to curtail his involvement. Writing is not my strongest suit. At the same time, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and want things to "make sense." (OK, yes, we stretch credibility in a few directions here, but I'm trying not to go completely off the reservation.) In any event, coming up with a single story line that satisfies me is hard enough - if I had 53 different branches to be dealing with right now, I'd probably have walked away in despair. Maybe after I'm done with this, I'll have the courage to attack something more ambitious. We'll see.
Finally, without giving too much away, I'll point out that this story is (hopefully) developing somewhat along the lines of a traditional novel. The first few chapters of any novel, inevitably, deal with "setup." Basically, "who is everybody, and how did we get into this mess." Once that's established, the novel typically shifts into a "ok, so where do things go from there" phase, and eventually to a "aaaaand, how did it all finish up" phase.
There's a famous quote from a Churchill speech:
(You must be registered to see the links)
That's kind of where I feel things are right now - as of Chapter 6, most of what I would consider "setup work" is done - we know who all the major players are, their relationships to one another, and something about what's going on in their heads. So, when the dust settles and this is a distanct memory, I think this is around the point where we'd agree that we're pretty much done with the appetizers, and about to dig into some of the meat of the story. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen...
And now, ladies and gentlemen, we've completed our tour. The exit is to your left, through the gift shop. Have a nice day...
It is an honor nevertheless to be heard by the developers and I appreciate you giving time to response to my not so valuable complains. As to where the game stands right now, I will say it again, I like it and that from the beginning you could actually see the difference among other novel/games. Now it is clear to me the point on how you guys (John and Rich) wants the game to go through and it would be remarkable to see the next phase of the story. I can't deny the excitement I'm feeling to continue the story. I am always checking for the update. Sorry, this is me blabbin too much. Again. Thank you and sorry if my comments may have become a burden to you both. More power. Looking forward for the next update. Take care.
You have a serious problem with deciding everyone that doesn't like the "game" is ranting about multiple choices.
It seems like you have problems with your own choice in this matter and are projecting.
Its not about player choice, its about MC choice.
Parker watches his mother get molested by a cop infront of entire group of people.
In the real world most people would actually get aggressive and violent watching that.
Parker being a minor char with no agency in the story just sat back and let it happen, yet you made the majority of the story from his viewpoint.
Hence people feel Trapped because you put the majority viewpoint from a ineffectual and only reacting minor char.
You don't seem to understand it has nothing to do with people making CHOICE A or CHOICE B
Its the CHAR has Choices they could make and Parker is completely passive and pathetic.
You could have made it that Parker attacked the cops and then they used the threat of charging him/arresting him to get the mother to do what they wanted.
This would have given Parker Agency and made him responsible for the story playing out in part instead of just a leaf in the wind.
You made Parker a completely passive Cuck that doesn't even stand up for his own family or really do anything active in the story.
Now its your story, if you wanted the MC to be such, well good job he is actually one of the most pathetic chars in any fiction I have ever seen and I know some people are really into that.
If it wasn't your intention you may want to stop projecting when people are saying they find something they dislike that its because they can't themselves make choices in the story.
It seems like you have problems with your own choice in this matter and are projecting.
Its not about player choice, its about MC choice.
Parker watches his mother get molested by a cop infront of entire group of people.
In the real world most people would actually get aggressive and violent watching that.
Parker being a minor char with no agency in the story just sat back and let it happen, yet you made the majority of the story from his viewpoint.
Hence people feel Trapped because you put the majority viewpoint from a ineffectual and only reacting minor char.
You don't seem to understand it has nothing to do with people making CHOICE A or CHOICE B
Its the CHAR has Choices they could make and Parker is completely passive and pathetic.
You could have made it that Parker attacked the cops and then they used the threat of charging him/arresting him to get the mother to do what they wanted.
This would have given Parker Agency and made him responsible for the story playing out in part instead of just a leaf in the wind.
You made Parker a completely passive Cuck that doesn't even stand up for his own family or really do anything active in the story.
Now its your story, if you wanted the MC to be such, well good job he is actually one of the most pathetic chars in any fiction I have ever seen and I know some people are really into that.
If it wasn't your intention you may want to stop projecting when people are saying they find something they dislike that its because they can't themselves make choices in the story.
Thank you for the feedback. I completely understand the points you're making. I also appreciate the fact that they were made in the manner they were, as compared to some of the rants that were inflicted on this thread "back when" by, um, "displeased readers." LOL
So - some responses. (Warning - the mind of a developer can be A Dark And Scary Place. Proceed at your own risk... LOL)
First, on the "MC" front, when John and I started this, we made a conscious decision that this story was going to be told from two viewpoints - Parker's and Bill's. (And then we actually added Carl's for a while.) So, your comment about Bill feeling like a main character - particularly early on - is actually quite correct and, as I said, was a conscious decision. The earliest part focused somewhat more on Bill. More recent chapters have shifted more to Parker's POV, but you'll eventually see some oscillation back in the other direction. The characters each have their own motivations. If you restrict yourself to telling a story completely from one POV, it can sometimes be hard to bring out the other characters' motivations other than by long, unnatural-feeling expositions. So, this was the path we chose. If it doesn't end up working for you, apologies.
I also understand your "feeling of being trapped." This is, clearly, a direct consequence of the fact that this is a kinetic novel, not a game, so you're being taken along for the ride as we tell the story, and don't have choices in terms of (possibly) "who does what to who." I understand that the fact that this isn't a game has bothered many people, but this was also (obviously) a conscious choice. Given that John and I had never tackled a project anything like this before, we decided that we were going to keep things simpler, and not take on too much at one time. And I'm very glad we did, now that John has been forced to curtail his involvement. Writing is not my strongest suit. At the same time, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and want things to "make sense." (OK, yes, we stretch credibility in a few directions here, but I'm trying not to go completely off the reservation.) In any event, coming up with a single story line that satisfies me is hard enough - if I had 53 different branches to be dealing with right now, I'd probably have walked away in despair. Maybe after I'm done with this, I'll have the courage to attack something more ambitious. We'll see.
Finally, without giving too much away, I'll point out that this story is (hopefully) developing somewhat along the lines of a traditional novel. The first few chapters of any novel, inevitably, deal with "setup." Basically, "who is everybody, and how did we get into this mess." Once that's established, the novel typically shifts into a "ok, so where do things go from there" phase, and eventually to a "aaaaand, how did it all finish up" phase.
There's a famous quote from a Churchill speech:
(You must be registered to see the links)
That's kind of where I feel things are right now - as of Chapter 6, most of what I would consider "setup work" is done - we know who all the major players are, their relationships to one another, and something about what's going on in their heads. So, when the dust settles and this is a distanct memory, I think this is around the point where we'd agree that we're pretty much done with the appetizers, and about to dig into some of the meat of the story. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen...
And now, ladies and gentlemen, we've completed our tour. The exit is to your left, through the gift shop. Have a nice day...
Well to be frank, he said more or less stated that this is basically the begining of the story. I understand the feeling your eplaining and actually felt it myself, watching the mother being molested blackmailed and raped, while she shamefully hides and masks herself from her fsmily. Parker oblivious to the situation in the begining because hes to young and horny mainly to understand the situation completly, and is stuck beneath a person of power in a shitty situation. Its not like his mother is acting weird or expresive of her assault to much, he just assumes shes trying to get over the previous attempt and move on, oblivious until Bill calls him to "spice it up". He did make a very good point, when explaining how his mothers rape will be sexualized to the genreal public, just because thats how people are. Hated it, but still kinda found myself jackin off to, mother is still sexy af. But from what i can guess it appears the cop may soon be takin on to much at once? Hmmm
But either way, it appears the whole point of this first half is to set up this hopeless,no escape situation like you explained, and hopefully parker grows some soon. Clearly he thought his mother was ok, but now threats against his sister and girlfriend, and learning about his mother, will push more action into play. As we seen at the start with footbal player he has a competative nature hidden in him
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- Jan 3, 2019
- 185
- 699
You know, I think your username was aptly picked, because you're sure misbehaving here.
Before you continue ranting against the author, perhaps you should read his post more carefully, and stop your amateurish attempts at psychoanalyzing him ("projecting"?) or putting words in his mouth. He never used the word "everybody". He used the word "some" when discussing the rants. And if you read the entirety of this thread, you'd see that there were people who made some very caustic remarks, particularly early on. Yours is pretty critical, and it's not a patch on some of the early ones. Maybe you need to brush up on your disparagement techniques.
In addition, there have been any number of posts complaining about not being able to avoid the NTR content, when the OP clearly says that this is a kinetic novel. So Rich's statements there were completely justified, IMO.
You also haven't considered the possibility that the story is in its very early phases (read the post!) and that the author is setting Parker up to do exactly what you're complaining he doesn't, once he figures out a way to pull it off. I don't know that for a fact - it's just speculation - but the way I read it right now, he's feeling trapped. You said it yourself - the cop has made overt threats against his sister and his girlfriend. What high school age young man is going to listen to that, say "Fuck it" and then attack the cop? I sure as hell wouldn't have when I was that age!
If you're on a porn game site demanding things they way they would happen in the real world, you're badly out of place. Tell me, what games to you play and enjoy? Ones where the MC manages to seduce every female he comes across? Ones where the MC has magical powers, or strange potions to enslave them, or is the only male in sight on an island or in a hotel or after a war? Ones where every female in his family ends up throwing themselves on his dick? "In the real world," indeed!
And beside that, for my money, the characters in this story, at least so far, are more "real world" than the vast majority of the games out there. I can identify with just about every one of them. (OK, maybe not the cop, but certainly all the rest of them. Hell - the students? I can place a name from my school to every single one of them.)
But, of course, you're clearly the expert as to how this script should have played out. I look forward to seeing the game that you produce that overcomes all the deficiencies you've identified in Rich 's efforts. And then we'll see how well you handle people ripping your story line apart, claiming you're projecting your fantasies or insecurities or inadequacies or whatever.
And to the rest of the readers here, apologies for my vitriol. It just gets my dander up when people who've never even tried to put together a work of their own feel like they can drop into a thread, hack and slash, and walk away feeling superior to someone who's not only trying to actually produce something, but also spends a fair amount of time answering questions on this site. And I don't mean just in this thread - Rich has offered up countless posts to people with questions about Ren'py, Daz Studio and any number of other topics in the developer area on this forum. (Yes, I follow him. I admit it.) I haven't walked that mile in his moccasins, but then neither have a lot of his detractors. And this place is a lot better of with him, than if he gets tired of being ragged on and decides to walk away.
My $0.02.
You lack understanding or context and it would take me forever to actually respond so I am going to point out a few things.
Suspension of Disbelief, stories need to be written in a way a person can throw away their disbelief.
Seeing people accept things 99% of people would not accept breaks this.
You want to say sex games are by nature absurd? well sure... But lets pretend its a story where the guy wakes up one day walks into his Uni pulls down his pants and tells all the girls to F Him and they all do it and all the guys act like nothing is happening.
He has no magical powers drugs or anything to explain and allow Suspension of Disbelief.
dumbest story ever...
Add in a magical artifact that allows him to control the minds of those around him and its no longer silly, its dumb plot but its got something that Allows Suspension of Disbelief.
You have no knowledge and yet make assumptions on ME personally then the topic.
Thats called Ad hominem, its what people do when they can't argue facts and so resort to personal attacks.
Your assumption that I have never made a game is wrong, I started making mods for games almost 20 years ago and eventually into making games themselves.
Lastly people have a right to express their dislike over a story and/or suggest what they feel are improvements.
The Creator can not very well improve or know if people are taking the story as intended WITHOUT it.
You may notice I didn't target the author about the story, I targeted the STORY.
I am glad you are still in school, its obvious you need better education... See thats an example of an Ad hominem attack.
Suspension of Disbelief, stories need to be written in a way a person can throw away their disbelief.
Seeing people accept things 99% of people would not accept breaks this.
You want to say sex games are by nature absurd? well sure... But lets pretend its a story where the guy wakes up one day walks into his Uni pulls down his pants and tells all the girls to F Him and they all do it and all the guys act like nothing is happening.
He has no magical powers drugs or anything to explain and allow Suspension of Disbelief.
dumbest story ever...
Add in a magical artifact that allows him to control the minds of those around him and its no longer silly, its dumb plot but its got something that Allows Suspension of Disbelief.
You have no knowledge and yet make assumptions on ME personally then the topic.
Thats called Ad hominem, its what people do when they can't argue facts and so resort to personal attacks.
Your assumption that I have never made a game is wrong, I started making mods for games almost 20 years ago and eventually into making games themselves.
Lastly people have a right to express their dislike over a story and/or suggest what they feel are improvements.
The Creator can not very well improve or know if people are taking the story as intended WITHOUT it.
You may notice I didn't target the author about the story, I targeted the STORY.
I am glad you are still in school, its obvious you need better education... See thats an example of an Ad hominem attack.
- Jan 3, 2019
- 185
- 699
How silly of me to assume that statements like
and
as being directed to the story, and not as targeting the author. Or have you taken to using the term "you" when speaking to stories?
A perfect description, from my point of view, of what YOU are doing to Rich. Thank you for summing it up so nicely.
Of course. That is exactly what Spoondadevil23 did. Rich thanked him for his input, and for the fact that it was presented in a constructive manner, and proceeded to explain a bit of his own thinking. And your reaction was to ridicule Rich with a response that was in no way constructively-phrased, and which included personal attacks.
I stand corrected. Care to provide some links so that we may provide similar feedback on your creations?
- Jun 25, 2017
- 2,635
- 7,648
Misbehaving - thank you for your feedback. I understand that there are people that think portions of the plot should (or should have) played out differently. Your point about "suspension of disbelief" in games and stories is quite true. In this case, perhaps it would be appropriate to say that the same concept applies (or should apply) to the actions the various characters take in this story. This is, after all, fiction, and thus not everything has to play out the way it would "in the real world."
L.Lumpy - thanks for your kind words, and for your willingness to come to my defense. (I have pretty thick skin, however.)
At this point, I'm going to ask the two of you to stop the back-and-forth, at least here. You've each had your say, but we (ok, "I") would really prefer it if this thread didn't descend into a flame war.
L.Lumpy - thanks for your kind words, and for your willingness to come to my defense. (I have pretty thick skin, however.)
At this point, I'm going to ask the two of you to stop the back-and-forth, at least here. You've each had your say, but we (ok, "I") would really prefer it if this thread didn't descend into a flame war.
Hello,
I love the story, and I love to think that while the school principal was talking to her, she was enjoying the confiscated photos of Parker's mother's arrest. And what I would most like is that this principal gradually began to enjoy the same privileges as the police, although in his own style ...
Greetings and eager to see the next chapters ...
I love the story, and I love to think that while the school principal was talking to her, she was enjoying the confiscated photos of Parker's mother's arrest. And what I would most like is that this principal gradually began to enjoy the same privileges as the police, although in his own style ...
Greetings and eager to see the next chapters ...
Breaking down a post into separate minute parts is trolling, it should be self evident why.
Saying he was projecting was not attacking him for his story, it was pointing out the fact he took someones post out of context into a line of thinking he has repeatedly fallen into in this thread.
You do not seem able to separate the difference between insult to criticism.
Thats criticism.
If I were to call you stupid, that would be a insult.
Do you know the legal age for signing up to this forum?, you have admitted to being in school and your responses make me believe you are under legal age.
Saying he was projecting was not attacking him for his story, it was pointing out the fact he took someones post out of context into a line of thinking he has repeatedly fallen into in this thread.
You do not seem able to separate the difference between insult to criticism.
Thats criticism.
If I were to call you stupid, that would be a insult.
Do you know the legal age for signing up to this forum?, you have admitted to being in school and your responses make me believe you are under legal age.