VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Mini-Sode: Blue Valentine] [NeonGhosts]

[NebulousShooter]

Is it wrong to feel affection for someone that helped you out from a really shitty fate? Should a person that helped you out at any point in your life never fall for you?

I feel that if we see things like that we will never find actual equal relationships, they probably not even exist. Same wealth, same age, same place in their life mentally, being equally attractive, probably happen just in fiction.

Going back to my initial point, for example I don't mind the Brittani romance, as long as I am allowed to pick how it progresses aka avoid the transactional first scene and others like it, because while being only 18 she acts more mature. I mentioned Gabby because she acts bratty and childish, couple that with her petite frame and the toon eyes morph and it make me feel weird romancing her, at least so far. Maybe that will change when she gets more character development down the line and a better way to enter her route.

On Mason, its just the nature of his life that so far I didn't notice any scene where it would not feel exploitative and just reinforce his views on relationships.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

I get what you're saying and while there are some bits I disagree with, we probably don't want to turn this into a gender studies or psychology class. I mean, in the end everyone is going to do their own thing - in the game and IRL. My main point was that I would recognize the potential imbalance and be extremely careful, especially with the very young ones. I like all of the girls and want to help all of the girls and don't want a harem but want to finish the game with all of them happy and whole. Of course, one of the advantages of games is that if I fuck up, I can travel back in time and fix it.

Probably, but I think it's relevant to my idea of the characters and their motivations. Also, I was replying to ffive btw, none of that was directed towards you? I've already taken your point

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Crazily enough, the character that I feel the most empathy for is Brittani. Not only is everybody in her life exploiting her, but her talent is legit going down the drain trying to make everybody else happy. Therefore, when my MC has sex with Brittani, he has her be herself. When you think about it, she's really not that far from being a Lucien model.

 

[ffive]

And lastly, as far as Guy's less successful past and lack of attention from the opposite sex: from the perspective of the author writing characters roughly grounded in reality with desires and motivations adjacent to the real world.. firstly, I think it's more complicated than you're presenting tbh and I think it's very unfair to pin it all on Nicki or other LIs, and none of it on Guy.

Just to clarify, i wasn't trying to put any sort of blame on girls for not falling head over heels for the version of Guy who only had kindness going for him and nothing else. It was just to point out that kindness alone isn't really that much of attraction factor, so the argument how current Guy isn't just rich, powerful, handsome, influential etc "but also kind" is very much overselling it as a valuable trait.

"He's not an asshole" is completely basic, bare minimum you'd expect from a person, so that it wouldn't outweigh the lack of other desirable traits is completely fine.

Is it wrong to feel affection for someone that helped you out from a really shitty fate? Should a person that helped you out at any point in your life never fall for you?

It is quite wrong in the sense it confuses affection and gratitude. You can usually see it from the opposite end, with "nice guys" thinking that women owe them affection and/or sex because "they've been nice to them" and/or did them some favors.

Nothing says that the person who has helped you can't fall for you, but when it comes to the reverse -- falling for the person who has helped you, that shouldn't really be based on that act; if feelings develop, that should be preferably due to factors/qualities other than getting help at some point.

 

[NebulousShooter]

NeonGhosts, you better let us save Viola's mom!

 

[Splitzzk]

Is there a Harem path in this game or something like that?

 

[rockstarporno69]

Can we see scenes with Brittani's mom in any future update?

 

[NeonGhosts]

"He's not an asshole" is completely basic, bare minimum you'd expect from a person, so that it wouldn't outweigh the lack of other desirable traits is completely fine.

I'm reminded of

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, which I read once or twice a year when I'm feeling stymied.



That said, Nice Guy isn't just nice. He's running a (largely) successful charity, and involved with a few small businesses. He's a surprisingly talented photographer. He's an avid reader. He's a great cook. He exercises, and takes care of his body. He has hobbies, and interests, which exist outside of his ability to throw money at things. It's these qualities that (more often than not) actually attract the love interests in the game.

Nicki's close with Guy, because of their shared interests. Ashe's optimal date outcome occurs when you show interest in her thoughts and opinions, valuing her outside her (admittedly great) tits and ass. Gabby cozies up when Guy shows an interest in her art, and recognizes which art school she's hoping to attend. Brittani does the same when she sees her goth photos, and Guy accepts her constructive criticism regarding her shoot. Carolina's best outcome, is when Guy demonstrates he could be a good dad to Maya. Mason and Guy bond over their shared love of bad sci-fi. I could go on, but you get it.

A lot of people tend to dismiss the relationships in the game as being only due to money. But, I see it more as these things being facilitated by money -- including Guy's confidence. There's really nothing about most of these relationships, that would require Guy's money, besides that said wealth put him in the right place, at the right time.

If Guy had nutted up and just told Nicki how he felt? Well, who's to say they wouldn't have gotten together? Or if he'd met Ashe while trying to rollerblade, and gotten a few tips from her, without looking at her tits? Or if he'd met Gabby at one of her art shows, and used his understanding of comics art to appreciate the stories she's telling in pictures? Or, or, or..

I may have just talked myself into doing some Wanton Weekends content around Guy meeting all the girls, sans wealth.. :'D

NeonGhosts, you better let us save Viola's mom!

Well fiiiine, if I must.. Nah, we'll likely meet Viola's mom in Chapter 11, actually.

Is there a Harem path in this game or something like that?

Not what one would call a traditional harem, where all the girls love you and are cool sharing you. But, you can be involved with multiple girls at once, on various routes.

Can we see scenes with Brittani's mom in any future update?

She'll be there to supervise Brittani's audition.

.. for good or ill. >_>

 

[ffive]

Ashe's optimal date outcome occurs when you show interest in her thoughts and opinions, valuing her outside her (admittedly great) tits and ass. Gabby cozies up when Guy shows an interest in her art, and recognizes which art school she's hoping to attend. Brittani does the same when she sees her goth photos, and Guy accepts her constructive criticism regarding her shoot.

I mean, i think we're pretty much on the same page, but just to be a devil's advocate for a second -- these are basically all boiling down to "Guy is a 'great listener'" i.e. that whole "can provide a basic service every other guy can provide" thing the article you brought up so rightfully mocks. Which, don't get me wrong, is still more than 90% of porn game MCs are capable off (and how sad is that) but it kind of can one wish there were some additional types of connection and interactions.

Which, to be fair, the game does try to provide. And it's also kinda limited by the whole structure of the girls only having limited number of appearances, and the whole "it's sex game, so sexy things should happen" breathing down its neck and pushing things forward. So i get that it's what it is, and it does pretty much the best it can within it constraints. So... yeah, it's cool~

 

[TigerWolfe]

every other guy can provide

Most of the women I've spoken to have indicated this is not the case at all.

 

[NebulousShooter]

Well fiiiine, if I must.. Nah, we'll likely meet Viola's mom in Chapter 11, actually.

She better survive the game, its all I'm saying

 

[The Anti]

Good MC path = Of course I’ll help Violas mother get treatment!

Bad MC path = Of course I’ll help Violas mother get treatment… But in return for being such a nice guy, Daily creampies for Viola

 

[Duce3227]

Good MC path = Of course I’ll help Violas mother get treatment!

Bad MC path = Of course I’ll help Violas mother get treatment… But in return for being such a nice guy, Daily creampies for Viola

Isn't that also the good path, taking care of Viola

 

[The Anti]

Isn't that also the good path, taking care of Viola

The Evil paths are always the good paths to me

 

[Duce3227]

The Evil paths are always the good paths to me

The evil path would be not helping her mother and then still locking up Viola in your private dungeon somewhere. But I disagree sometimes the "evil" paths are fine. Especially if they aren't too dark and the girl has no redeeming quality.

 

[The Anti]

The evil path would be not helping her mother and then still locking up Viola in your private dungeon somewhere. But I disagree sometimes the "evil" paths are fine. Especially if they aren't too dark and the girl has no redeeming quality.

I don’t think we’ll get to go that far in this game

I think trading medical care for a sex slave will be about as far as we can go with Viola.
Maybe Neonghosts will surprise me though

 

[Pixillin']

The evil path would be not helping her mother and then still locking up Viola in your private dungeon somewhere. But I disagree sometimes the "evil" paths are fine. Especially if they aren't too dark and the girl has no redeeming quality.

One of the things I like about FiN is that I don't think there are any girls with no redeeming qualities.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Just to clarify, i wasn't trying to put any sort of blame on girls for not falling head over heels for the version of Guy who only had kindness going for him and nothing else. It was just to point out that kindness alone isn't really that much of attraction factor, so the argument how current Guy isn't just rich, powerful, handsome, influential etc "but also kind" is very much overselling it as a valuable trait.

"He's not an asshole" is completely basic, bare minimum you'd expect from a person, so that it wouldn't outweigh the lack of other desirable traits is completely fine.


It is quite wrong in the sense it confuses affection and gratitude. You can usually see it from the opposite end, with "nice guys" thinking that women owe them affection and/or sex because "they've been nice to them" and/or did them some favors.

Nothing says that the person who has helped you can't fall for you, but when it comes to the reverse -- falling for the person who has helped you, that shouldn't really be based on that act; if feelings develop, that should be preferably due to factors/qualities other than getting help at some point.

Kindness doesn't put food on the table, I realize that. But as an added bonus? I mean, as long as he isn't a pushover, and Guy isn't that, I don't see why generosity and kindness on top of all the other qualities wouldn't be a factor, especially for the ones who are used to being manipulated, lied to, or treated like shit. You're telling me if you had a choice between almost the perfect woman who's a bit of a bitch, versus the perfect woman who treats you with love and respect, you wouldn't pick the second one in a heartbeat?

And honestly, people don't all seek the exact same things in a relationship; believe it or not, some women do make it a point to be with a nice guy... maybe not just a nice guy that has nothing else going for him, but they have enough self-respect to not be strung around by a shithead. Just like some guys wouldn't always go for the hottest woman they could get, but might be keen towards a sweet personality that wouldn't make him want to stick a gun in his mouth every morning

these are basically all boiling down to "Guy is a 'great listener'" i.e. that whole "can provide a basic service every other guy can provide" thing the article you brought up so rightfully mocks

How so? He doesn't just listen to them, he has interesting interactions. I think you're not giving Guy enough credit here, and also I think you're over-simplifying the LIs and what appeals to them. Women are complicated, but they're also as simple as everyone else. People connect through interests all the time. Some of them even find love and marriage eventually! Because who honestly doesn't love the idea of spending the rest of your life with someone, if that's what you want anyways, who likes the same things you like? Instead of some unfortunate relationships where one's idea of fun is the other's idea of a lost day.

 

[DA22]

Kindness doesn't put food on the table, I realize that. But as an added bonus? I mean, as long as he isn't a pushover, and Guy isn't that, I don't see why generosity and kindness on top of all the other qualities wouldn't be a factor, especially for the ones who are used to being manipulated, lied to, or treated like shit. You're telling me if you had a choice between almost the perfect woman who's a bit of a bitch, versus the perfect woman who treats you with love and respect, you wouldn't pick the second one in a heartbeat?

And honestly, people don't all seek the exact same things in a relationship; believe it or not, some women do make it a point to be with a nice guy... maybe not just a nice guy that has nothing else going for him, but they have enough self-respect to not be strung around by a shithead. Just like some guys wouldn't always go for the hottest woman they could get, but might be keen towards a sweet personality that wouldn't make him want to stick a gun in his mouth every morning


How so? He doesn't just listen to them, he has interesting interactions. I think you're not giving Guy enough credit here, and also I think you're over-simplifying the LIs and what appeals to them. Women are complicated, but they're also as simple as everyone else. People connect through interests all the time. Some of them even find love and marriage eventually! Because who honestly doesn't love the idea of spending the rest of your life with someone, if that's what you want anyways, who likes the same things you like? Instead of some unfortunate relationships where one's idea of fun is the other's idea of a lost day.

Even worse, one might even ask if all women are always or per se interested in kindness in a guy in the first place. Contrapoint had some interesting points about that in her 3 hour youtube video on Twilight. (recommended watch if you do like a bit of philosophy)

Also what is too often forgotten in this discussion that people (yes both man and woman) can act nice without being nice. "Being" nice should be a main characteristic for both sexes to look out for in a partner, "acting" nice should be avoided as it most of the time mostly virtue signaling and a way to get what that person wants. ( In a way not to dissimilar as trying to look more wealthy as you are a kind of fraud game) Learning the difference between those two things might be one of the best life skills to develop and if never do you will get seriously hurt in life whether a man or a woman.

Edit: So yeah especially that pretty woman that is been nice to 36 times a day should learn that difference as should a guy as Guy. Or to bring it back to game it is part of the trap Nicky fell into with Brent and after.

 

[Ragnar]

Even worse, one might even ask if all women are always or per se interested in kindness in a guy in the first place.

That's true, some women end in abusive relationships because they seek that type of dudes. It's a complex issue and I don't think a porn vn is the best place to discuss it seriously, but the game already cover it in the corruption routes. Nikki and Ashe like to be abused to some degree.