kailina55

Newbie
Aug 11, 2018
32
71
I understand why people are mad at the slow progress of this development, but what are you suggesting they should do in the ideal scenario? I disagree with the take that this is pure milking regardless, the team behind this has managed to deliver Noxian Nights to completion - an excellent game.

The start of this game is also unique and excellent in many ways, but now there haven't been much progress for a long time. This phenomenon seems to be reoccuring on games here, and I can see why. I myself have considered releasing a game Im developing on my spare time and possibly having a subscribe star/patreon, but I've been reluctant to release it publically because I believe doing so might put more pressure on me than I need. In general I believe people underestimate how much work it is to develop a game, something that would increase exponentially which management of social media channels, marketing, fan responses, special rewards to patreons etc.

If I would dedicate that much time to develop games *with* my current day job I would have no spare time at all. I would also need to break up with my girlfriend to free more time. While the money seems good at first glance (I don't know how much they are making, split three ways) its most likely not good enough for you to quit your job to work on a porn game, even if you would, its a pretty big risk if patreons would disapear one day.

So these guys have developed a solid game before and are in the process of devoping another one, the problem is just that life sometimes get in the way. How do you justify to people that you need to spend all of your free time developing a porn game? Its a tricky situation. Of course they could put the game on hold, but then you would have to call out to people again to start donating if you would pick it up again? Idk, just my thoughts
Well the way I see it, if they don't want to come off as milking this thing as much as possible, then they could simply change the subscription model to charge for releases only. Patreon has that option. That way they would get paid for the content they actually release, instead of the content they "promise" they are working on. With that method it wouldn't matter how slow their progress is or how much life gets in the way of development, because people would only be charged once the update is out. Seems more honest and less greedy that way.
 

souldead341

Engaged Member
Oct 16, 2017
2,380
2,456
Well the way I see it, if they don't want to come off as milking this thing as much as possible, then they could simply change the subscription model to charge for releases only. Patreon has that option. That way they would get paid for the content they actually release, instead of the content they "promise" they are working on. With that method it wouldn't matter how slow their progress is or how much life gets in the way of development, because people would only be charged once the update is out. Seems more honest and less greedy that way.
But then they'd make less money. Of course it'd be a better method to avoid either actual milking or the appearance of milking, but money is king and they've gotten used to getting the monthly money infusion for minimal work.

I'll also say that a lot of people don't understand how the per update model works from the supporter side, so it gets some bad press from people who don't understand it. Most people think that the creator can label dozens of things as updates, and the supporters are forced to pay for each one. In reality the supporters are allowed to set a maximum payment per month for the per release model. So if you are supporting $5 per release, and want to limit it to $20 per month you can do that, and still get patreon access when the creator posts 6 updates in a month (this was a model some video creators used when I was looking at them years ago).
 

CourierNPC

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2017
1,175
1,127
but in a way, that is kind of the nature of the business model with patreon regardless?
The thing with Hreinn is that whether they have contents to release or have no content to enjoy at all, they still continue payments, which may have been the cause of people telling that Hreinn is "milking" their patrons. (Do keep in mind that this case is not limited to Hreinn Games only)

They could've told people that for a specific amount of time, whether life happens or burnout, they'll be stopping the payment and working things out behind the screen and then resume the payment when they have enough confidence to bring something new to the table - I personally will find that okay, so, can't say much about everyone else.

Then again, I could be wrong on that end, so do correct me.
 

kailina55

Newbie
Aug 11, 2018
32
71
But then they'd make less money. Of course it'd be a better method to avoid either actual milking or the appearance of milking, but money is king and they've gotten used to getting the monthly money infusion for minimal work.

I'll also say that a lot of people don't understand how the per update model works from the supporter side, so it gets some bad press from people who don't understand it. Most people think that the creator can label dozens of things as updates, and the supporters are forced to pay for each one. In reality the supporters are allowed to set a maximum payment per month for the per release model. So if you are supporting $5 per release, and want to limit it to $20 per month you can do that, and still get patreon access when the creator posts 6 updates in a month (this was a model some video creators used when I was looking at them years ago).
Well yeah, it would be less money. That is the point, though. The person above was saying they don't think the team is just milking the game. I was saying that there are things they could do to make it seem like they aren't. They have the option of passing up on the monthly pay and only taking money for actual content releases. They aren't taking that option. Thus I'd say it's normal for people to assume the team is in it primarily for the monthly cash grab.

I could be wrong on this, but I think if you pay someone money regardless of whether they release content or not, then they get complacent and lazy and lose motivation. Why put in effort when people are willing to reward you regardless of the outcome?

IMO patreon shouldn't exist as a "money is king" platform. It should exist to fund a teams vision and help them realize it. And I just don't get the feeling there is much of a vision/dream left in this project. There should be a drive to create an awesome project that you think people would pay to support. The number 1 goal shouldn't be to earn money. Maybe that's me being unrealistic/pessimistic, but it doesn't feel like the team enjoys working on this project anymore. It more feels like an obligation/something to do for the money. I think if they actually enjoyed it then they would spend more time on it and we would see more updates.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be much happier if they had regular updates instead of changing their payment method to only charge for releases. I wouldn't mind throwing some money at them again if that were the case. But giving them money in the current situation would just give me the feeling of funding someones habit of procrastination.
 

Daybyday

Newbie
Jun 14, 2017
32
75
I have some pretty big visions, I don't get a patreon bc i don't yet have the tools to realize them
Well if you have the tools to release a start of it like many do I think its tragic that you wont. Now the world will never know what your game was like. People didnt get to experience it and in turn other creators may have been inspired to create even better games with similar concepts.

I dont defend people not living up to comittments here. Clearly people are disapointed in waiting and paying for progression that is never delivered. But since this happens in 95% of the cases here, its not the fault of individual content creators, its clearly a flawed model of patreon.

I agree that devs should ”pause” payments. But since so few do there might be other difficulties in this process. Perhaps they lose the patreons if they do as they forget about the game and move on? Another difficulty, if the payment is monthly and your releases arent monthly, its kind of weird to have payment switched on for four months and then switched off for a month and then turned back on again for a release. Then people ironically enough might feel even more snubbed for paying for months of no release.

I’ve also been reluctant to start releasing a game because Im afraid of the comittment expected of me and I dont really know what is reasonable. Some guy here suggested its nothing to work extra 20 h per week on a game but for most people that is completely unsustainable.
 
Last edited:

Karl Speidel

Active Member
Sep 20, 2021
841
804
Well if you have the tools to release a start of it like many do I think its tragic that you wont. Now the world will never know what your game was like. People didnt get to experience it and in turn other creators may have been inspired to create even better games with similar concepts.

I dont defend people not living up to comittments here. Clearly people are disapointed in waiting and paying for progression that is never delivered. But since this happens in 95% of the cases here, its not the fault of individual content creators, its clearly a flawed model of patreon.

I agree that devs should ”pause” payments. But since so few do there might be other difficulties in this process. Perhaps they loose the patreons if they do as they forget about the game and move on? Another difficulty, if the payment is monthly and your releases arent monthly, its kind of weird to have payment switched on for four months and then switched off for a month and then turned back on again for a release. Then people ironically enough might feel even more snubbed for paying for months of no release.

I’ve also been reluctant to start releasing a game because Im afraid of the comittment expected of me and I dont really know what is reasonable. Some guy here suggested its nothing to work extra 20 h per week on a game but for most people that is completely unsustainable.
Just as long as you provide regular updates and dont do something in bad faith then you shouldn't worry,if you are doing good work people will see,if you start going greedy and lazy or maybe even contemptious like some in this website like bo wei and henrein or how its spelled you should worry.
 

CourierNPC

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2017
1,175
1,127
Perhaps they lose the patreons if they do as they forget about the game and move on? Another difficulty, if the payment is monthly and your releases arent monthly, its kind of weird to have payment switched on for four months and then switched off for a month and then turned back on again for a release. Then people ironically enough might feel even more snubbed for paying for months of no release
If they lose Patrons, well, that's on them.

It may be difficult to decide to take a break, make a new plan/roadmap/what-have-you, and then decide with a big heart that it'd be best to pause payments until they think that the content is worth subscribing to again. But hey, if that renews their morale and overall enjoyment in making the content we longed for all these years, I'm not against the idea. ^^"

Also, what use for me (or anyone else) to subscribe to someone who does erotic content but then all I heard was radio silence? I'd be pretty pissed and thought I have been ripped off from behind my back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nitan17

Daybyday

Newbie
Jun 14, 2017
32
75
A solid game made yesterday doesn't guarantee one's great future either if they remain the same, complacent to the task at hand, and thinking that the cards they've played still hold some relevance.
Well it does hold some relevance. From what I can see Noxian Nights is free now. Thats another confusing aspect of Patreon, I guess many are paying them as sort of a "tipping jar" for the appreciation of having developed a previous game and allowing them to play it for free. If they stopped development and abandoned KoD at the time they realized they were in over their heads, they would not have gotten any royalties at all from the completed NN. That payment model rewards dragging out the dev process of a game since as long as you are assumed to still be working on a game people will still pay you. Actually finishing a game only has downsides.

Look at "Dual Family". The guy behind it could have just finished up the game by now with the last update but chose instead to go on a metaphysical LSD-type of storytelling trip that absolutely nobody would like just to be able to continue the game on patreon. The content he produced was just as time consuming to create as finishing up the story would have been Im sure, but there were zero incentatives for doing so and many to just drag things out.

And I know some sell the games on steam and similar, but they are just a ban waiting to happen.
 

Panchromatic

Newbie
Mar 30, 2018
15
37
Maybe a bit of an odd question, but the gallery shows scenes I oughtn't to have unlocked yet as being unlocked; is there any way to fix this and return them to a locked state? I tried deleting the old saves from previous versions in "%APPDATA%\RenPy\yadda yadda" but it didn't seem to help.
 
Aug 11, 2020
349
963
Maybe a bit of an odd question, but the gallery shows scenes I oughtn't to have unlocked yet as being unlocked; is there any way to fix this and return them to a locked state? I tried deleting the old saves from previous versions in "%APPDATA%\RenPy\yadda yadda" but it didn't seem to help.
They use the file called "persistent" to store which scenes were unlocked. You can find that file in the save folder (appdata and also in the /game/saves folder).

I don't really see the problem though.
 

ahrimansiah

Member
Oct 28, 2017
296
350

update post
Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know where we are at.
.13 is very close to finished, there's a few things we want to add and still tweak and whatnot, but overall most of it is finished. We've had a good chunk of it finished for a while, and another chunk of it finished for still a fair bit. This is because our release schedule has been to complete several quests entirely, and release it as a large chunk of content.
While we do like that approach in theory, we realize it does result in longer periods with no releases. It has become more apparent as we have also begun to work on larger and more complex CGs and quests than in earlier patches. We've also heard a lot of the feedback regarding this release schedule. To that end, we want to adjust how we release our content.
Our plan is still to have a 'patch' be several quests and CGs, but instead of completing all of it and releasing it at once - which does necessarily require a longer amount of time to develop - we want to release it in smaller sections. So, for example, a patch might have 3 major quests, but we will work on, complete, and release one quest at a time. We're hoping that this will result in a faster monthly release schedule.
In regards to patreon tier rewards, they will still be relevant and based off of the whole 'patch' as opposed to each singular quest release. We will be giving an outline of what the patch will include at the start of the cycle so that everyone is on the same page as us - it is likely we will be sticking with a 3 quest per patch style.
Now - with .13, we are aiming to have it fully released by the end of June, and we will be doing the new system with it as well. The first quest in it is the Ylva quest, so we will be releasing it as soon as we have it cleaned up and finalized - early June for this. We'll then release the Vehlis one a bit later, finishing up with the Tavern quest. Once all three have been released, it will be repackaged as a full patch release with any edits/bugs fixed, and we'll begin working on the next one, along with the relevant patreon rewards.
We also have some additional repeatable scenes in the trading lodge with the shop orc that we'll add as well.
Thanks guys for all the continued support, it really is appreciated.
So the floating plane without fuel is finally stalling.... sad... another great game going to be ruined and abandoned because the creators got the cash for free and now they dont have motivation anymore...
Thats why i love pirating! most of developers dont deserve trust, first give the complete game THEN i will give u the cash.
 
Last edited:

MingXiao

Member
Aug 9, 2021
101
252
So the floating plane without fuel is finally stalling.... sad... another great game going to be ruined and abandoned because the creators got the cash for free and now they dont have motivation anymore...
Thats why i love pirating! most of developers dont deserve trust, first give the complete game THEN i will give u the cash.
Its obvious ever since Sierra left that production has massively dropped. Nomo might have the artistic side to him but there seems to be no one there putting stuff together and it gets even worse when they hire new staff midway in into the prologue. Yes I call it the prologue because it literally feels like the opening chapter of a book. We are introduced to a tribe, a bit of backstory and venture out once or twice but there's not more depth and we as the player have managed to achieve nothing in regards to impact outside the tribe and inside the tribe its very miniscule.
 
3.90 star(s) 77 Votes