VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[Ayhsel]

Amber has already found a window for you in her schedule
Just because the conditions in the past that shaped a character's behavior aren't revealed does not mean that there is no reason in that character's past for their behavior. And the reason that we are who we are usually lies in our past, it's difficult to deny. Therefore, it seems to me that it is good that at least a few of my favorite authors pay attention to such things. They show us why their characters are the way they are, rather than just throwing cardboard figurines around the stage labeled "villain," "arrogant bitch," "competitive bitch," "asshole," as many others do. And yeah, that competitive girl in your example who just likes it, I’m sure she wasn’t born with a competitive streak, she didn’t even have the concept of “competitiveness” back then. She learned it, and certain events from her past shaped her taste for it.

My point was that not everyone needs a sad past. Some people had good chilhoods.

And morre generally, not every characters needs a past to be how they are.

Nobody "taught" me to be competitive when I was younger. Yet I was. And I do enjoy an attention to detail, don't get me wrong. But not everyone needs to be given such details, specially the same kind of "this terrible event/experience/relantionship happened to me before, so like me." Some characters simply are. Others can have tragedy happen to them DURING the novel. Some may take the mantle of victims and others of victimizer. Complex characters is not just creating a background for people to be sorry about.

I am the biggest drama queen here. Up until the other day, my signature said "conflict is the essence of drama". But reading how every character was abused/mistreated/neglected or whatever as kids ends up dimishing the effect by overdose. Reader gets numb to it.

Its good to show some contrast.

 

[Fun Shaundi]

My point was that not everyone needs a sad past. Some people had good chilhoods.

I get what you mean, but you're comparing real life with a VN.
As much as Ocean (and other devs) might be doing this in the name of art and not only adult scenes/porn, at the end of the day they're also selling a product. They have to make the characters plausible, but also interesting enough to pull an audience. 'Normal' and pretty average characters might be refreshing, but they have the risk of not standing out among other LIs or being too boring for the audience/consumers.

All I can say is that some scenarios might be too fantastic at times, but it's still plausible. Mila and Zara might have a not so good past, but it's very tame in comparison to (just to give an example cause I love these 2) Bella's and maybe Sasha's.

 

[Nurikabe]

This is all nice.

But to be honest, I am a bit tired of too many "tragic past" characters. Not everyone needs to have a fucked up past. This is not just in SG. I am seeing this problem in a lot of novels.

I actually liked her more when it was just who she is. "Yes, I am a competitive girl because I like it. I am amazing and if you want to be with me you neeed to show me you are as amazing as me". No conditioning. No psychological response. Just pure "I am awesome" personality. We don't need to be empathetic to all characters. No need to show everyone has a soft side.

I am a supervillain just because I love it. No betrayal, no enduring event, no eye wakening trauma. Just pure awesome cute evilness.

Show me one person who has been through life without having bruises, been beaten, scarred, broken, betrayed, or had horrible setbacks.

Show me a deeply competitive person who has a clean past and nothing to inspire that competition.

Show me any superhero or supervillain who does not have a tragic backstory.

Show me any person in history who has met with no resistance in their life who skated through and been noteworthy.

Show me any of those things and I will show you a person who is lying.

Nobody worth writing about is untouched. We are all products of our environment, our upbringing, our successes, and our tragedies. More importantly, we want to read interesting stories. We want to see people who have been through the shit we have been through or worse and made it through. Nobody wants to read the story of a supervillain who has no reason other than his evil nature to drive him into doing more evil.

 

[RNasc4444]

Beyond her toxic competitiveness, she possesses a delightful personality, reminiscent of Bella once you look beyond her rough exterior. Btw, if you failed to notice any of these nuances, my dear, it might be prudent to refine your observational skillsღ

The thing is I see Bella as inherently strong. Bella can back up all her arrogance and confidence. From my perspective Zara is the complete opposite. When called out she will break down and cry. She can't cope with loss so she lashes out. Look at how both of them take their losses in the basketball games. One takes her loss maturely, admits she fell for your trick and says it won't happen again while the other resorts to a mean spirited "prank". Which speaks volumes as to her emotinal balance and maturity. They are nothing alike. I see Zara as inherently weak but putting up a strong and confident demeanor as a coping mechanism.

Then again you may be right regarding my observational skills. I discarded Zara pretty early on and because I also don't find her attractive, physically or otherwise, I don't pay a lot of attention to my interactions with her. Interactions which are drastically different from yours as I certainly haven't made the same choices you did due to not caring for her at all.

 

[crabsinthekitchen]

One takes her loss maturely

do you mean this

or this

 

[RNasc4444]

do you mean this
View attachment 3124653
or this
View attachment 3124656

Reading comphreension is hard huh?

Do you know what a "loss" is? You can't have lost a game while the game is ongoing. She acts like that because he bailed on her without so much as a warning. Not because of the loss.

I meant this:

 

[Alexanderson037500aa]

My point was that not everyone needs a sad past. Some people had good chilhoods.

And morre generally, not every characters needs a past to be how they are.

Nobody "taught" me to be competitive when I was younger. Yet I was. And I do enjoy an attention to detail, don't get me wrong. But not everyone needs to be given such details, specially the same kind of "this terrible event/experience/relantionship happened to me before, so like me." Some characters simply are. Others can have tragedy happen to them DURING the novel. Some may take the mantle of victims and others of victimizer. Complex characters is not just creating a background for people to be sorry about.

I am the biggest drama queen here. Up until the other day, my signature said "conflict is the essence of drama". But reading how every character was abused/mistreated/neglected or whatever as kids ends up dimishing the effect by overdose. Reader gets numb to it.

Its good to show some contrast.

Didn't most of the love interests that were introduced so far have some kind of trauma going on in their lives?

 

[Ayhsel]

Show me one person who has been through life without having bruises, been beaten, scarred, broken, betrayed, or had horrible setbacks.

Show me a deeply competitive person who has a clean past and nothing to inspire that competition.

Show me any superhero or supervillain who does not have a tragic backstory.

Show me any person in history who has met with no resistance in their life who skated through and been noteworthy.

Show me any of those things and I will show you a person who is lying.

Nobody worth writing about is untouched. We are all products of our environment, our upbringing, our successes, and our tragedies. More importantly, we want to read interesting stories. We want to see people who have been through the shit we have been through or worse and made it through. Nobody wants to read the story of a supervillain who has no reason other than his evil nature to drive him into doing more evil.

Steins Gate MC has no tragic past and remains a fantastic character.
Rewrite MC has a past but it is not tragic. And his best version is in the true route, in which he has no past
Takeru from Muv Luv has no tragic past and goes from annoying to a great MC.
Rin from Fate Stay Night has no tragic events and is the best developed heroine.
Main girl from Acting Lesson: again no tragic past.
Take Mass Effect best trio: Liara, Tali and Garrus. No tragic past. The three of them grow IN game.
Those are just the top of my head without thinking much.

You never saw competitive children that are competitive just because? Really? Me and my friends were competitive because it was fun.

So while everybody has suffered something, not everyone is scared terribly but it.

And you are totally missing the point and in fact you are saying something false. NOT ALL STORIES NEED TO START WITH A PAST. I put it large because you assume that is the case. You can make all kind of tragedies and conflict and drama during the story.

Not all characters are interesting because of their past. And certainly not only tragic past are interesting.

Even in a Rick and Morty episode Rick makes fan of how all superheroes are all the same. Rick and Morty!

So no, you dont necessarily need a tragic past to make great characters. If anything, is done half because you want the audience to be empathetic but also because it is an easier way to introduce mystery. You give some hints and then "what happened to him/her"

Now, I am not saying we dont need tragic past either at all. Amane' past in is The Fruit of Grusaia is the best part of the novel. And in this novel by construction all characters have a tragic past.

My favorite novel of all time, The House in Fata Morgana, is about discovering tragedies, oversimplifying stuff. But this is by construction. Not all novels NEED to be like that.

Also, it can be detrimental. If a character past is too harsh, it can make new tragedies less effective. "Why care he has no job? Girl was raped!" "Why is he so devastated heroine died? His family alwaya die. Why this one matter so much?"

Again, I am the biggest drama queen here. I love to see characters falling in despair. But no need to make everyone broken from the start. Can brake them in game. And characters can have flaws that make them interesting without a past generating them.

 

[BenMeiffert]

I hope we have a chance to romance everyone in the game, especially Zara and the milfs from the bookclub .

MC has enough difficulties to get hard... don't think of him banging all pussies close to him...

 

[Ayhsel]

I get what you mean, but you're comparing real life with a VN.
As much as Ocean (and other devs) might be doing this in the name of art and not only adult scenes/porn, at the end of the day they're also selling a product. They have to make the characters plausible, but also interesting enough to pull an audience. 'Normal' and pretty average characters might be refreshing, but they have the risk of not standing out among other LIs or being too boring for the audience/consumers.

All I can say is that some scenarios might be too fantastic at times, but it's still plausible. Mila and Zara might have a not so good past, but it's very tame in comparison to (just to give an example cause I love these 2) Bella's and maybe Sasha's.

I was not comparing to real life but talking about novels.

I do agree that the main reason is probably trying to captivate the audience. My point as I explained in the previous point is that just abusing tragic past characters is not the best way to go.

Patreon games suffer mainly because they need to captivate from time zero. They cannot wait to flash out the setting before capturing the audience as they need support. The House in Fata Morgana, on the other hand, doesn't start to pick up until chapter 4, which needs several hours to get there.

So probably the abuse in tragic past comes from the business model, as you suggested.

 

[Uriel ☁]

The game's main theme is healing.
Of course every girl have some past trauma to overcome.

The only girl without it is probably Victoria, because she has a different and more recent trauma to overcome.

 

[Ayhsel]

The game's main theme is healing.
Of course every girl have some past trauma to overcome.

The only girl without it is probably Victoria, because she has a different and more recent trauma to overcome.

Actually, you gave a good example to my point. Victoria's tragedy happens in game. I agree the game is about healing. Not all helaing need to come from past tragedies.

A lot of conflict and drama can happen from interaction in game.

Nami being in love with her brother is a source of drama and conflict no needing past drama too.

Zara need not be competitive because her mother abused her, but could simply be her character and her conflict could come from not allowing anyone stand by her side without matching her ridiculous expectatiins.

Again, point was not to write my own novel. Just to point out the "too much broken past characters" situation that I am seeing.

 

[JJ1960]

Zara's actually one of the better-written LIs in SG. The look she gives MC when he tells her, "I believed in you", speaks volumes. I doubt I have to go further because I'm quite sure that the majority of her fans fell for her at that moment.
Nonetheless, I'll elaborate further. Everything leading up to that instance reveals her subconscious responses, shaped by her mother's influence. Essentially, the maltreatment she endured compelled her to behave in a particular manner, almost reflexively, around the clock. It wasn't until the arrival of the MC that she truly began contemplating her actions. Whether it's her reaching for his hand after the tennis match, subtly seeking his attention whenever they're together (which might also stem from a desire for validation due to her abusive past), or notably freezing when he expresses belief in her—these instances heightened people's interest in her, especially that final scene.

Her arrogance is a byproduct of her mother's conditioning. Either she excelled at something, or she faced physical, verbal, and mental abuse. The MC's presence in her life immediately challenges the version of herself created by her mother. Throughout her journey(path), she will gradually evolve from that moulded persona to become her own unique individual. Beyond her toxic competitiveness, she possesses a delightful personality, reminiscent of Bella once you look beyond her rough exterior. Btw, if you failed to notice any of these nuances, my dear, it might be prudent to refine your observational skillsღ

I think Zara's change goes back to Nika's response to the handcuff incident. He didn't respond to her for what she did to him but for involving Nami being in danger in the setup. She's used to being able to intimidate people, but his threat to her if she ever tries to use his loved ones in any way again was probably jarring to her. She never had her father stand up for her like Nika does for Nami, and seeing a man who might also do that for her piques her interest.

 

[FunChaser]

... One takes her loss maturely, admits she fell for your trick and says it won't happen again while the other resorts to a mean spirited "prank"...

Let’s also recall MC’s behavior in these games. He played fair against Bella, just gave her some compliment. But he made everything to make Zara (and Nadia) mad in the second game, that was his master plan to win. So I wonder, maybe different reaction of Bella and Zara (with Nadia) is related to MC's behavior, not to girls' mental state?

 

[Slick Bean]

Do you enjoy FULL FORCE foot or KNEE BLOWS TO YOUR ABDOMEN AND CROTCH WHENEVER YOU PLAY CONTACT SPORTS?

She's used to being able to intimidate people,

So I wonder, maybe different reaction of Bella and Zara (with Nadia) is related to MC's behavior, not to girls' mental state?

cONTACT SPORTS - YOU CONTACT PEOPLE TO GET THE BALL - fOOTball/soccer/basketball/handball ...

 

[Cabin Fever]

This is all nice.

But to be honest, I am a bit tired of too many "tragic past" characters. Not everyone needs to have a fucked up past. This is not just in SG. I am seeing this problem in a lot of novels.

I actually liked her more when it was just who she is. "Yes, I am a competitive girl because I like it. I am amazing and if you want to be with me you neeed to show me you are as amazing as me". No conditioning. No psychological response. Just pure "I am awesome" personality. We don't need to be empathetic to all characters. No need to show everyone has a soft side.

I am a supervillain just because I love it. No betrayal, no enduring event, no eye wakening trauma. Just pure awesome cute evilness.

You realize you are basically describing Vanessa right? Just swap "competitive" with "alpha".

While I don't disagree with you in general, in this case two sisters with basically the same personality wouldn't make the story better.

 

[Cabin Fever]

I am the biggest drama queen here.

No you're not. The biggest drama queens here are the "I'll die before the game is finished" crowd.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Show me one person who has been through life without having bruises, been beaten, scarred, broken, betrayed, or had horrible setbacks.

Show me a deeply competitive person who has a clean past and nothing to inspire that competition.

Show me any superhero or supervillain who does not have a tragic backstory.

Show me any person in history who has met with no resistance in their life who skated through and been noteworthy.

Show me any of those things and I will show you a person who is lying.

Nobody worth writing about is untouched. We are all products of our environment, our upbringing, our successes, and our tragedies. More importantly, we want to read interesting stories. We want to see people who have been through the shit we have been through or worse and made it through. Nobody wants to read the story of a supervillain who has no reason other than his evil nature to drive him into doing more evil.

There are tons of those kinds of people everywhere. Negative drama is not the only thing that can motivate a person to excel.

 

[Mortarion]

I like the SG soundtrack a lot, but I think I've heard that a lot of it has been removed for licence reasons.

Theres also a music resoration mod listed in the startpost of this thread. But carefull, afaik this mod don't work with other mods.

not every characters needs a past to be how they are.

Well, we are all defined by our past.

The imprinting or interaction with each other begins in infancy. From there it goes on to kindergarten, primary school, secondary school and then on to vocational training.

These are all formative phases that have a massive influence on our entire being and contribute significantly to the acquisition of enormously important social skills.

The past lays the foundation for the present, one cannot exist without the other.

Main girl from Acting Lesson: again no tragic past

Which one?

And no, the awnser "not the gal who got turned into a BBQ" dosen't count.

 

[crabsinthekitchen]

Reading comphreension is hard huh?

Do you know what a "loss" is? You can't have lost a game while the game is ongoing. She acts like that because he bailed on her without so much as a warning. Not because of the loss.

I meant this:
View attachment 3124703
View attachment 3124711

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Let’s also recall MC’s behavior in these games. He played fair against Bella, just gave her some compliment. But he made everything to make Zara (and Nadia) mad in the second game, that was his master plan to win. So I wonder, maybe different reaction of Bella and Zara (with Nadia) is related to MC's behavior, not to girls' mental state?

with Bella, they watched a dude watch porn with a buttplug in his ass just a night before. that's a pretty intimate moment if you ask me, so it makes sense she's not in her "crushing enemies" mode with him anymore

with Zara, it's literally second time she sees him, so he's still in "enemies to be crushed" territory, and he doesn't show any reaction after being handcuffed, so they had to turn up the heat a bit and undress him