VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.999] [WeirdWorld]

[FrapFrapper]

I will say early-game Ella is far more antagonistic than late-game Ella. I'd like to say it's due to her opening up a little bit as the MC grows more competent and unlocks more of his memories, but honestly, it is more likely due to WW not having a clear vision early on of what he wanted their relationship to be long term.

Hell, an early-on dead end has her killing the MC for just displaying his ability to make poison tentacles from genetic memories, something she couldn't do, thus proving that he was "perfect" from the beginning. That DE completely goes against what we know of her agenda AND her personal hopes/feelings toward the MC.

While her early-on antagonism does play its intended part in strengthening the MC, we are shown very little of Ella having a hidden soft side for the MC. Something WW seemingly tried to rectify later on with memory callbacks and a few in-person scenes.

Completely agree with you on that, so much so that it affect my gameplay experience when we got flashbacks of Ella in the hospital, like "are you kidding me!?, Bitch you killed me for being honest with you and trusting you a little bit and like half a dozen other times!" .

There were some dialog options that were later removed back when we got captured by the mob about weather we should have ask Ella for help or not and I normally chose the option that said fuck her (not sexually).

Also she puts us through at least 4 direct dead ends and roughly up to at least 6 dead ends indirectly.

 

[FrapFrapper]

Does anybody know what WW considers arcs? Cause I had reopened the game to check some stuff, and totally forgot that the ending scrawl before the bump to title screen says the next update starts the next and final arc of the game. Does he consider a whole evolution segment an arc, or just the traditional "this is the mafia arc, this is the twins arc" etc.?

I'm guessing story blocks of the main story until we move to the next one? I think the current evolution part is not really the story arc as its more the immediate events happening in the story. The story arch in this case is us in the "other world" until we leave it or escape from there?

 

[Blaze_Lumini]

Completely agree with you on that, so much so that it affect my gameplay experience when we got flashbacks of Ella in the hospital, like "are you kidding me!?, Bitch you killed me for being honest with you and trusting you a little bit and like half a dozen other times!" .

I personally like Ella as a character. I just gotta keep in mind that a good ending with her will very likely involve outplaying her in the end... or taking her agenda and adjusting it to suit our needs. I look forward to seeing how things play out.

 

[One_Black_Sun]

My two cents when I played this game 9 months ago is that Ella is a very unpredictable character, and it always felt like you were walking on eggshells with her - one wrong move and you're served up like sashimi. I could be misremembering that part a bit, considering the time gap, but that's how I felt about her. And then she just died, and now we've got a facsimile of her when she was still level 4 and planning stuff out. I don't think WW ever had a clue what to do with her until recently.

 

[Grimnir098]

I will say early-game Ella is far more antagonistic than late-game Ella. I'd like to say it's due to her opening up a little bit as the MC grows more competent and unlocks more of his memories, but honestly, it is more likely due to WW not having a clear vision early on of what he wanted their relationship to be long term.

Hell, an early-on dead end has her killing the MC for just displaying his ability to make poison tentacles from genetic memories, something she couldn't do, thus proving that he was "perfect" from the beginning. That DE completely goes against what we know of her agenda AND her personal hopes/feelings toward the MC.

While her early-on antagonism does play its intended part in strengthening the MC, we are shown very little of Ella having a hidden soft side for the MC. Something WW seemingly tried to rectify later on with memory callbacks and a few in-person scenes.

I think you're misinterpreting that dead end. Also you're mixing it up with another dead end.
When MC displays his ability to make poison tentacles (during his fight with her), she realises he inherited the Memory trait and captures him to take him to Memory. After meeting up with her, the Lord of Dark arrives and attacks, killing Memory and Ella, and presumably the MC as well.

In the dead end which you're talking about, MC reveals he can gain the memories of any organism he touches. When Ella hears this, she has the same realisation as before and cuts his head off. I'm 90% sure the exact same thing as the previous dead end happens, with Ella taking MC to Memory. WW just didn't want to retread old ground, so he had it end prematurely.

Also, Ella has revealed a soft spot for the MC multiple times even before the doll is woken up. It's just that she's much more antagonistic, so you're only remembering the negative shit she does. Common tendency for humans.
With all that said, Ella is kind of a callous bitch, and I get the impression she is totally willing to sacrifice basically anyone to reach her end goal, including the MC.

 

[Shaun@121]

On my two routes I hate Ella, she's very annoying, I admire anyone who's a fan of hers.

Well i agree but she is to much relevant to the story so that's why i m tolerating even at one point i killed her friend (pole dancer ) to take some kind of revenge because of all this shit she pulled but then i got dead end

 

[Blaze_Lumini]

I think you're misinterpreting that dead end. Also you're mixing it up with another dead end.
When MC displays his ability to make poison tentacles (during his fight with her), she realises he inherited the Memory trait and captures him to take him to Memory. After meeting up with her, the Lord of Dark arrives and attacks, killing Memory and Ella, and presumably the MC as well.

In the dead end which you're talking about, MC reveals he can gain the memories of any organism he touches. When Ella hears this, she has the same realisation as before and cuts his head off. I'm 90% sure the exact same thing as the previous dead end happens, with Ella taking MC to Memory. WW just didn't want to retread old ground, so he had it end prematurely.

Also, Ella has revealed a soft spot for the MC multiple times even before the doll is woken up. It's just that she's much more antagonistic, so you're only remembering the negative shit she does. Common tendency for humans.
With all that said, Ella is kind of a callous bitch, and I get the impression she is totally willing to sacrifice basically anyone to reach her end goal, including the MC.

Nope. You are just misreading. A common tendency for humans.

"In the dead end which you're talking about, MC reveals he can gain the memories of any organism he touches. When Ella hears this, she has the same realisation as before and cuts his head off."
=
"Hell, an early-on dead end has her killing the MC for just displaying his ability to make poison tentacles from genetic memories, something she couldn't do, thus proving that he was "perfect" from the beginning."


"Also, Ella has revealed a soft spot for the MC multiple times even before the doll is woken up. It's just that she's much more antagonistic, so you're only remembering the negative shit she does."
=
"Something WW seemingly tried to rectify later on with memory callbacks and a few in-person scenes."


I just finished the game and I'm currently replaying all the scenes again. So no, I'm not just recalling old memories, I'm actively double-checking before talking. It's not till many hours in that you see a soft/caring side of Ella. And yes, Ella will sacrifice ALMOST anyone (not Christie) to achieve her objectives. The only thing you said that added to the conversation was that maybe the dead end was exactly like the other DE and she just dragged MC to the apostle. But why was it even more violent than the first time when supposedly she was supposed to care for him? Probably like I was saying, WW hadn't fully developed his vision for the two's relationship and was overly aggressive.

" Common tendency for humans."
The way you phrased that... Are you not human?

 

[obibobi]

Nope. You are just misreading. A common tendency for humans.

"In the dead end which you're talking about, MC reveals he can gain the memories of any organism he touches. When Ella hears this, she has the same realisation as before and cuts his head off."
=
"Hell, an early-on dead end has her killing the MC for just displaying his ability to make poison tentacles from genetic memories, something she couldn't do, thus proving that he was "perfect" from the beginning."


"Also, Ella has revealed a soft spot for the MC multiple times even before the doll is woken up. It's just that she's much more antagonistic, so you're only remembering the negative shit she does."
=
"Something WW seemingly tried to rectify later on with memory callbacks and a few in-person scenes."


I just finished the game and I'm currently replaying all the scenes again. So no, I'm not just recalling old memories, I'm actively double-checking before talking. It's not till many hours in that you see a soft/caring side of Ella. And yes, Ella will sacrifice ALMOST anyone (not Christie) to achieve her objectives. The only thing you said that added to the conversation was that maybe the dead end was exactly like the other DE and she just dragged MC to the apostle. But why was it even more violent than the first time when supposedly she was supposed to care for him? Probably like I was saying, WW hadn't fully developed his vision for the two's relationship and was overly aggressive.

" Common tendency for humans."
The way you phrased that... Are you not human?

I had the exact same thoughts about Ella as you and it's somewhat understandable how it ended up that way, the game has been going for over 4 years with one writer and he probably realised at some point that Ella was not the character he wanted her to be, sure it could be written that she would warm up to the MC but for the first half, you felt like a lab rat she may have had a fondness for, she spent more time with Jake and also threw him a bone when she healed the small girl and when we get flashbacks to when they spent time together, the way she treated the MC in the beginning will probably make even less sense.

The Ella doll situation is one of the best idea's he had for her, letting her be around the MC while also having that distance of either not being the real Ella, or it being actual Ella lying through her teeth.

Also that talk she gave about not caring if she dies, as of now, what we know about her, makes no sense. What we know so far is that she had a crappy upbringing and wanted power so she could live a good life, she also isn't willing to do whatever it takes, she drew a line at using Emily and Christie and you could make the excuse of she thought they might fail, if she was willing to sacrifice them she would have any way, but she isn't. It would require additional backstory that hasn't been hinted at, because if anything she's very much a care about herself, and those in her immediate surroundings, everyone else can get fucked, nothing about Ella points her as the type that would die for any higher cause.

 

[Komdot]

I will say early-game Ella is far more antagonistic than late-game Ella. I'd like to say it's due to her opening up a little bit as the MC grows more competent and unlocks more of his memories, but honestly, it is more likely due to WW not having a clear vision early on of what he wanted their relationship to be long term.

Hell, an early-on dead end has her killing the MC for just displaying his ability to make poison tentacles from genetic memories, something she couldn't do, thus proving that he was "perfect" from the beginning. That DE completely goes against what we know of her agenda AND her personal hopes/feelings toward the MC.

While her early-on antagonism does play its intended part in strengthening the MC, we are shown very little of Ella having a hidden soft side for the MC. Something WW seemingly tried to rectify later on with memory callbacks and a few in-person scenes.

Those hospital flashbacks were so bad and out of place that it was one of the few moments when the game cut my immersion.

 

[Grimnir098]

Nope. You are just misreading. A common tendency for humans.

"In the dead end which you're talking about, MC reveals he can gain the memories of any organism he touches. When Ella hears this, she has the same realisation as before and cuts his head off."
=
"Hell, an early-on dead end has her killing the MC for just displaying his ability to make poison tentacles from genetic memories, something she couldn't do, thus proving that he was "perfect" from the beginning."

You realise the MC can't die from getting his head cut off, right? He's literally done it to himself, when he was escaping Klaus.
The dead end where Ella actually kills him - because he killed Christie - has her consuming his brain with her tentacles, I believe.

"Also, Ella has revealed a soft spot for the MC multiple times even before the doll is woken up. It's just that she's much more antagonistic, so you're only remembering the negative shit she does."
=
"Something WW seemingly tried to rectify later on with memory callbacks and a few in-person scenes."


I just finished the game and I'm currently replaying all the scenes again. So no, I'm not just recalling old memories, I'm actively double-checking before talking. It's not till many hours in that you see a soft/caring side of Ella. And yes, Ella will sacrifice ALMOST anyone (not Christie) to achieve her objectives. The only thing you said that added to the conversation was that maybe the dead end was exactly like the other DE and she just dragged MC to the apostle. But why was it even more violent than the first time when supposedly she was supposed to care for him? Probably like I was saying, WW hadn't fully developed his vision for the two's relationship and was overly aggressive.

Okay, I'll concede that point because I'm not replaying until the 1.0 update. I wasn't talking about anything that happens after the doll wakes up, though, so I definitely wasn't misreading that point either.

" Common tendency for humans."
The way you phrased that... Are you not human?

Do I have to say "we/us humans..." to signal to you that I am indeed human and not an alien or robot posing as a human?

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I've always seen it as that Ella wants us to win and get strong, but if we burn out quickly and die, then we weren't worth the time investment. So as the MC evolves and gets stronger, she allows herself to become more relaxed and happy around the MC, as she feels more comfortable trusting him to become the kind of person she needs him to be. Which I feel works well with both aspects of her personality. She is more than willing to drop the MC like a bad habit if she feels he isn't living up to her standards, but when he does, then she can be more friendly and happy for his success.

Jake needed the help because mentality is such a big barrier to strength; if his mind wasn't in the right place, he wasn't going to gain the strength he otherwise could. Here's a big sticking point, in that after Syla died, the MC ran away to join Ella's group for a month or two. During that time, Ella could very easily have taken stock of his mental state after the trauma of his mom dying, even if she erased his memory of it, and assessed that the MC has the mental fortitude to excel as a superhuman. Jake, on the other hand, very desperately needed all of the hand holding he could get, and even then he still categorically fucked up. From Ella's perspective, the MC was going to overcome whatever challenges she sent his way, and "it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission".

 

[Jooj Cena]

Completely agree with you on that, so much so that it affect my gameplay experience when we got flashbacks of Ella in the hospital, like "are you kidding me!?, Bitch you killed me for being honest with you and trusting you a little bit and like half a dozen other times!" .

There were some dialog options that were later removed back when we got captured by the mob about weather we should have ask Ella for help or not and I normally chose the option that said fuck her (not sexually).

Also she puts us through at least 4 direct dead ends and roughly up to at least 6 dead ends indirectly.

100% always hate Ella. She gets worse in my book after discovering she knew the mc as kids.

 

[Blaze_Lumini]

You realise...

1. Yes. It is a DEAD end. "People die when they are killed" - Shirou Emiya. Regardless of HOW he dies, MC still dies due to direct action by Ella.
2. Neither was I. "A few in-person scenes before the doll, specifically at Bills Park" Does that read better/easier to get the point across?
3. Nah, you just came across as condescending.

 

[RudeFist]

I see Ella as a pragmatist in regards to her goals. She believes in the world she is struggling to build and thus has no qualms about using everyone around her as disposable pawns to reach that goal. I don't even hold that against her as much as similar characters of this archetype because she had the resolve to die for it herself. She does have genuine affection for these pawns but due to her life experiences she is capable of both cherishing and sacrificing them at the same time, likely because her ideals are that important to her. Her snark just hides some of her nicer aspects at times.

It's not like she has delusions of being a heroine, as she acknowledges that she is a ruthless bitch who has made up her mind long ago to do whatever is necessary to achieve her goals which she firmly believes will, in her view, make the world a better place. Hell, even though she cares enough about Christie to avenge her by killing you, she still comments about how maybe it was for the best that you removed one of the last remnants of her human weakness.

Now the MC would be smart to think of her as an enemy unless his goals happen to align with hers, because there's no other way to view someone who is only strengthening you to serve her own means while putting you in danger and possibly disposing of you along the way all to create what is most likely a world where normal humans are extinct. I just find to her be more interesting than hate-able, similar to how I enjoy "might makes right" philosophy characters that stick to their guns and congratulate you for besting them with their final breath.

 

[Grimnir098]

1. Yes. It is a DEAD end. "People die when they are killed" - Shirou Emiya. Regardless of HOW he dies, MC still dies due to direct action by Ella.
2. Neither was I. "A few in-person scenes before the doll, specifically at Bills Park" Does that read better/easier to get the point across?
3. Nah, you just came across as condescending.

1. So? There's a massive difference in what it means for Ella's character if MC dies because she consumed his brain, and if MC dies because she captured him, brought him to Memory, and then they were all suddenly attacked by Lord of Dark who killed them all.
2. Yes. You were kind of vague in your original comment.
3. So that was just a meaningless passive aggressive remark. Good to know.

 

[Blaze_Lumini]

1. So? There's a massive difference in what it means for Ella's character if MC dies because she consumed his brain, and if MC dies because she captured him, brought him to Memory, and then they were all suddenly attacked by Lord of Dark who killed them all.
2. Yes. You were kind of vague in your original comment.
3. So that was just a meaningless passive aggressive remark. Good to know.

1 Ella had all the reasons in the world to believe that the MC was the one she needed before her death. However, due to a change in her writing, she suddenly didn't want to follow through on her earlier motivations. That was the original point that you argued against by simplifying my comment as "so you're only remembering the negative shit she does". Side note: While I agree it's a good guess, it's not a fact that LoD is the cause of that DE as well. How many times have apostles or chosen shown up and LoD has never made an appearance? This includes when MC turns. It's not a given that LoD is the cause of the DE. We saw in the Christie death DE that Ella didn't hesitate early on to kill MC regardless of agenda.
2. My bad. I assumed that the reader would have an idea of what they were talking about before attempting to call me out.
3. Yes, our entire conversation has been full of passive-aggressive remarks. Thank you internet.

 

[Grimnir098]

1 Ella had all the reasons in the world to believe that the MC was the one she needed before her death. However, due to a change in her writing, she suddenly didn't want to follow through on her earlier motivations. That was the original point that you argued against by simplifying my comment as "so you're only remembering the negative shit she does". Side note: While I agree it's a good guess, it's not a fact that LoD is the cause of that DE as well. How many times have apostles or chosen shown up and LoD has never made an appearance? This includes when MC turns. It's not a given that LoD is the cause of the DE. We saw in the Christie death DE that Ella didn't hesitate early on to kill MC regardless of agenda.
2. My bad. I assumed that the reader would have an idea of what they were talking about before attempting to call me out.
3. Yes, our entire conversation has been full of passive-aggressive remarks. Thank you internet.

1a. What were the reasons Ella had to believe MC was the one she needed?
1b. When exactly does she not follow through on her earlier motivations?
1c. When I said you were only remembering the negative shit, I was referring to you not remembering positive interactions between her and the MC. It had nothing to do with the point about killing the MC.
1d. It just makes no sense for Ella to kill the MC after realising he's perfect. We already know from a prior dead end that she wants him alive to deliver him to Memory for some reason. My explanation of what happens in the dead end we're talking about isn't just a "good guess", it's a superior explanation to yours (i.e. that Ella simply kills the MC for no particular reason, going against her previously established character and agenda). So you're correct that it isn't a fact, but neither is what you're saying.
2. Yes, assumptions are easy to make and not always correct. I'd say I'm glad we agree on that because it's kind of important when hashing out disagreements, but I get the feeling you don't think you did anything wrong even though you were the one being vague and unclear. Did you assume no one would call you out, or that anyone who read your comment would know exactly what you meant despite your poor wording? Either assumption is, obviously, incorrect. But rest assured, I will do better to make up for your failings.
3. I'm not passive aggressive. If I have a problem with you, I'll say so, as I did above. You read passive-aggression into my comment, which is understandable because text isn't always clear - but none of my comments have been passive-aggressive. Hell, even if I conceded that the comment you called condescending is passive-aggressive, that's literally the only hint of it in all my responses to you, so our conversation could only be "full of passive-aggressive remarks" because of you. This is projection.

 

[FrapFrapper]

Those hospital flashbacks were so bad and out of place that it was one of the few moments when the game cut my immersion.

Same, I was like how can you ask me to try and feel or care about her like this when put into context of the previous shit she's done to us, and then try to handwave it like oh, I was just pretending to not remember and the MC has amnesia. Really broke emersion for me.

"Also, Ella has revealed a soft spot for the MC multiple times even before the doll is woken up. It's just that she's much more antagonistic, so you're only remembering the negative shit she does."
=
"Something WW seemingly tried to rectify later on with memory callbacks and a few in-person scenes."

I would prefer if WW went back and just retcon or changed it to better represent that than this soft inconsistant approach.

You realise the MC can't die from getting his head cut off, right? He's literally done it to himself, when he was escaping Klaus.
The dead end where Ella actually kills him - because he killed Christie - has her consuming his brain with her tentacles, I believe.

Do I have to say "we/us humans..." to signal to you that I am indeed human and not an alien or robot posing as a human?

Okay that is not true, first off we weren't ready and weaker than later on when we did cut off our head.
Secondly if we choose the wrong option from where we regrow from we die from cutting off our own head. Dead end right there.
Thirdly, Ella doesn't exactly cut off our head, we assume so. Checking the ending, she SPLATTERS us apparently and most importantly, we get Dead End #6, no ifs or buts, A official dead end. Back to main screen. Reload, try again.

Side note: I would also like to point out we don't die by Ella's hand when she kidnaps us to go see Mother. Rather its some other monster god that kills Mother, presumably Ella, then us.

PS. I think you missed the joke and a chance to joke about being "Superhuman" at the end there.

100% always hate Ella. She gets worse in my book after discovering she knew the mc as kids.

I'ma level with ya bro. I don't really hate Ella. Shes the crazy bitch you don't stick your dick in. But honestly we've all likely tried, and I have personally tried to go back for seconds (and 3rd, & etc.).

Its more of a love-hate rollercoaster thing, even if we know better than to be tempted by those bit titty goth tits.

Also worth mentioning, she's not the only one experimenting on kids. For what its worth, she's more selective and people she chooses have a much higher success and survival rate.

But besides that, she's proven to be one of the more interesting characters and has the brutal will to see her desires and ambitions to fruition. Keep in mind what she's up against. People who quite easily and nearly singlehandedly killed millions and conquered the entire planet. You don't have much room for luxury beliefs when fighting against that kind of power or the other powers than are strong enough to contest the conquerors.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I would prefer if WW went back and just retcon or changed it to better represent that than this soft inconsistant approach.

From what I understand, a lot of the early game will be reworked to better line up with later story when WW goes back to do the sprite overhaul. I expect Ella's behavior to be on the list of things to tweak.

 

[FrapFrapper]

From what I understand, a lot of the early game will be reworked to better line up with later story when WW goes back to do the sprite overhaul. I expect Ella's behavior to be on the list of things to tweak.

Oopf, that can be a bit risky. Fingers crossed it'll come out alright. I hope WW will stay true to Ella's overall character..... Whatever her character may be..... I just hope he keeps all the crazy best parts that we've come to know Ella for and had lengthy discussions about, otherwise it could be too alienating for some players to easily accept.