VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Maviarab]

Oh absolutely - I'm not arguing that it won't have a different effect. But the result can be the same, William still would be moved to resolve the past. I have two friends that I have tension with. If I found out they were in hospital dying, I'd want to resolve the tension if they stil thought certain things about me. My friends are both too proud about the particular situation, so I don't have a way to easily do it. But I'd want to. I see this as similar - the shock of the past hitting us in the present can jolt us out of our status quo. The level and intensity of the feeling and the reasons are different, but if we care about that person, we might indeed drop our day to day rituals.

I simply don't think that saying "William is adopted, therefore he wouldn't go back to see if Helen's okay" makes sense. Some blood relative would turn of the phone and block the number, wanting a completely new life. Everyone has their reasons.

I just don't think after so many years of being NC (a lot by choice) that if it was adopted family (and he knew...knowing is key here) that he would literally drop everything and be off the day after....his real mother in an accident and his sister calls him out of the blue...makes perfect sense.....the other way....really doesn't to me. Sure, still go...but it wouldn;t be immediate and drop everything like he does. Again, we're at a loss unfortunately if he does know, when did he find out etc. I think people are forgetting the time period he's been gone is quite significant and that also makes a difference.

As you say, the next chapter should be interesting.

I think the nature vs nurture concept could be a great thing for Ocean to explore while he's doing this game. One of my favourite games had the premise "what can change the nature of a man?" Everything in the game revolves around the repercussions of your actions, how one pebble cause the ripples in others lives. In the same way, if Ocean was to explore some of these boundaries and intersections of human nature, it could strengthen the narrative. Not a heavy handed or nerdy way (like Nika talking about cause and effect), but situationally and through actions, only using words when absolutely necessary.

Excellent points and yes, was a great game indeed I agree

 

[BobTheDuck]

I just don't think after so many years of being NC (a lot by choice) that if it was adopted family (and he knew...knowing is key here) that he would literally drop everything and be off the day after....his real mother in an accident and his sister calls him out of the blue...makes perfect sense.....the other way....really doesn't to me. Sure, still go...but it wouldn;t be immediate and drop everything like he does. Again, we're at a loss unfortunately if he does know, when did he find out etc. I think people are forgetting the time period he's been gone is quite significant and that also makes a difference.

As you say, the next chapter should be interesting.


Excellent points and yes, was a great game indeed I agree

Well, there's also whatever the reason for his choice to stay away was. From memory (I have to redownload a version to properly access the script), William mentioned a sense of shame about prison, and not being able to look Helen in the eye because of what happened. He might imagine how much everyone hates him, having left because of blackmail or whatever the new situation is. ALthough those reasons are no longer current, there's still a logic that can't be discounted until we know his reasons. Leia his (definite) sister called him and asked for him, so it even works on your premise, it can be that he's doing it because of Leia. The other thing is that William doesn't actually seem to be doing anything, as an author, it's pretty easy to pick up and put down work on your own terms.

There's so much that's currently unsaid, and we're probably 3 days into the game time.I really hope Ch4 starts with WIlli and Leia, just because I'm impatient, and seeing their interactions will reveal a lot even if Ocean doesn't spill all the beans.

 

[sorco2003]

Well, there's also whatever the reason for his choice to stay away was. From memory (I have to redownload a version to properly access the script), William mentioned a sense of shame about prison, and not being able to look Helen in the eye because of what happened. He might imagine how much everyone hates him, having left because of blackmail or whatever the new situation is. ALthough those reasons are no longer current, there's still a logic that can't be discounted until we know his reasons. Leia his (definite) sister called him and asked for him, so it even works on your premise, it can be that he's doing it because of Leia. The other thing is that William doesn't actually seem to be doing anything, as an author, it's pretty easy to pick up and put down work on your own terms.

There's so much that's currently unsaid, and we're probably 3 days into the game time.I really hope Ch4 starts with WIlli and Leia, just because I'm impatient, and seeing their interactions will reveal a lot even if Ocean doesn't spill all the beans.

The issue with the latter is something I've been saying since the rework, and that Katie and Leia tell him to his face.... William is a coward. That the solution to a supposed blackmail by a 10 year old girl is to run away without looking back, makes him look pretty bad even without any change on the relationships... now, if he is adopted and he knew it, so any threat from Katie has some logic (who are they going to believe more, me that I am adopted or they own blood?) makes the betrayal he makes to Leia even worse, not only he abandons her as a coward, but he leaves her in enemy territory...
And the next question that occurs to me in this hypothetical case is why come back if before he believed that the blood would weigh more? did he overcome cowardice? As a starting point it leaves a lot of unknowns which I didn't pay attention to because Katie exists, and I guess I won't pay attention to it in the future because Katie exists.
I feel Vidal, who SG doesn't give a damn as long as he has Bella.

 

[BobTheDuck]

The issue with the latter is something I've been saying since the rework, and that Katie and Leia tell him to his face.... William is a coward. That the solution to a supposed blackmail by a 10 year old girl is to run away without looking back, makes him look pretty bad even without any change on the relationships... now, if he is adopted and he knew it, so any threat from Katie has some logic (who are they going to believe more, me that I am adopted or they own blood?) makes the betrayal he makes to Leia even worse, not only he abandons her as a coward, but he leaves her in enemy territory...
And the next question that occurs to me in this hypothetical case is why come back if before he believed that the blood would weigh more? did he overcome cowardice? As a starting point it leaves a lot of unknowns which I didn't pay attention to because Katie exists, and I guess I won't pay attention to it in the future because Katie exists.
I feel Vidal, who SG doesn't give a damn as long as he has Bella.

And it does get down to that - we like what we like because that part we like resonates, whether it's Katie or someone else.

About William being a coward, well, he was then, but after prison, who knows? He couldn't run away in prison, at all. Ho probably got big there because he couldn't run away. And his emotions got beaten in a different way. He survives, years pass then a door to life before prison opens, that he though was shut, that he'd forgotten existed. He looks back on how naive he was to leave everyone, how shit he was to abandon Katie I mean Leia and he cries, decides to fix what he broke.

I mean, it really shouldn't be hard to write at least 5 or 6 plausible beginings for the new scenario.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

As a starting point it leaves a lot of unknowns which I didn't pay attention to because Katie exists, and I guess I won't pay attention to it in the future because Katie exists.
I feel Vidal, who SG doesn't give a damn as long as he has Bella.

 

[sorco2003]

View attachment 3860043

ohhh sorry if it wasn't very clear... if it was a direct attack to Vidal the king of Pervert
But, dont worry... we are bros

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

ohhh sorry if it wasn't very clear... if it was a direct attack to Vidal the king of Pervert
But, dont worry... we are bros

it is true I don't care about anything as long as I have my Bella

 

[Dr.TSoni]

ohhh sorry if it wasn't very clear... if it was a direct attack to Vidal the king of Pervert
But, dont worry... we are bros

More than anything I'm guilty of both XD
Since we're on the subject, is Miru/Katie still possible?

 

[BobTheDuck]

More than anything I'm guilty of both XD
Since we're on the subject, is Miru/Katie still possible?

I'd assume so, there's no reason why the open relationship would dropped because of the change. But it'd be Miru/Katie/Zoey

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I'd assume so, there's no reason why the open relationship would dropped because of the change. But it'd be Miru/Katie/Zoey

 

[yossa999]

just don't think after so many years of being NC (a lot by choice) that if it was adopted family (and he knew...knowing is key here) that he would literally drop everything and be off the day after....his real mother in an accident and his sister calls him out of the blue...makes perfect sense.....the other way....really doesn't to me.

Let me check if I understood you correctly. Are you saying that MC's decision to put everything aside and blindly rush to help the woman who raised, loved and cared for him depended solely on whether they were related by blood?

 

[Maviarab]

which I didn't pay attention to because Katie exists, and I guess I won't pay attention to it in the future because Katie exists.

Preach...

Let me check if I understood you correctly. Are you saying that MC's decision to put everything aside and blindly rush to help the woman who raised, loved and cared for him depended solely on whether they were related by blood?

Is it my turn now Yossa to accuse you of only reading what you want to? (sorco2003 would be so proud of me lol).

I said not immediately...especially given (you also are conveniently forgetting) the time frame involved that he has never bothered going back. Dropping everything for his mother because his sister called...makes sense. Dropping everything and leaving almost immediately, because his sister called about his adopted mom...may have been a day or two later (especially if he knows he is adopted). He never cared in the last ten plus years (again, we have no idea how long he was inside)...why the rush now (though admittedly, that also throws a spanner in the, if his real mom..why still stay away NC)?

Tldr: Just makes more sense to me to drop everything and leave for a real mother...

This does also lead back and into what Bob said earlier....why the hell leave in the first place...especially if...

 

[yossa999]

Preach...


Is it my turn now Yossa to accuse you of only reading what you want to? (sorco2003 would be so proud of me lol).

I said not immediately...especially given (you also are conveniently forgetting) the time frame involved that he has never bothered going back. Dropping everything for his mother because his sister called...makes sense. Dropping everything and leaving almost immediately, because his sister called about his adopted mom...may have been a day or two later (especially if he knows he is adopted). He never cared in the last ten plus years (again, we have no idea how long he was inside)...why the rush now (though admittedly, that also throws a spanner in the, if his real mom..why still stay away NC)?

Tldr: Just makes more sense to me to drop everything and leave for a real mother...

This does also lead back and into what Bob said earlier....why the hell leave in the first place...especially if...

Nope, I read what you wrote. You say the MC's reaction should be different depending on whether they are related by blood or not otherwise it doesn't make sense to you.
Let's peel it from the husk and leave only the essence.

A blood related mother - it makes sense to drop everything and run to her.
An adoptive mother - there’s no need to rush, she’s just a second-class mother.

Otherwise there is no point in even mentioning this difference. The fact that he never cared about her the last ten years doesn't matter because this is the same person he never cared about the last ten years, regardless of whether they are blood related or not.

What am I conveniently forgetting now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Maviarab]

she’s just a second-class mother.

Your words not mine, don't put them in my mouth please. You should be well aware by now, I mean what I say and I certainly say exactly what I mean.

Again, if he doesn't know...then I've already said, twice...there is no current change in dynamic.

 

[yossa999]

Your words not mine, don't put them in my mouth please. You should be well aware by now, I mean what I say and I certainly say exactly what I mean.

I’m watching s7 of Suits, and I learned that the outcome of the trial is a matter of interpretation of words

 

[Maviarab]

I’m watching s7 of Suits, and I learned that the outcome of the trial is a matter of interpretation of words

Not something ever watched, I'm not a big TV watcher, never have been really, a few select things aside.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Nope, I read what you wrote. You say the MC's reaction should be different depending on whether they are related by blood or not otherwise it doesn't make sense to you.
Let's peel it from the husk and leave only the essence.

A blood related mother - it makes sense to drop everything and run to her.
An adoptive mother - there’s no need to rush, she’s just a second-class mother.

Otherwise there is no point in even mentioning this difference. The fact that he never cared about her the last ten years doesn't matter because this is the same person he never cared about the last ten years, regardless of whether they are blood related or not.

What am I conveniently forgetting now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just my two cents
When we talk about blood family I reflexively think that William chose to run away as a response to Katie's blackmail out of shame or fear of rejection.
But when you talk about adoptive families the first reason that comes to mind is the fear of being kicked out so he preferred to exile himself to safeguard Leia.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Preach...


Is it my turn now Yossa to accuse you of only reading what you want to? (sorco2003 would be so proud of me lol).

I said not immediately...especially given (you also are conveniently forgetting) the time frame involved that he has never bothered going back. Dropping everything for his mother because his sister called...makes sense. Dropping everything and leaving almost immediately, because his sister called about his adopted mom...may have been a day or two later (especially if he knows he is adopted). He never cared in the last ten plus years (again, we have no idea how long he was inside)...why the rush now (though admittedly, that also throws a spanner in the, if his real mom..why still stay away NC)?

Tldr: Just makes more sense to me to drop everything and leave for a real mother...

This does also lead back and into what Bob said earlier....why the hell leave in the first place...especially if...

I have to side with Yossa here. To me, mother is mother, blood-related or not. Just makes more sense to me to not even factor in blood-relationship if I were in that situation. But as I said before, it all depends on the individual.

What I do know for a fact is that my friend that I've alluded to before, did literally drop everything and took a long flight halfway around the world the next morning to see his adopted mom as soon as his adopted sister told him that mom wasn't feeling well. But to be fair, in my friend's case, while he wasn't super tight-knit with his adopted family, he didn't "ghost" them neither.

 

[txe320]

Anyway, no matter what, we all agree it's not going in the right direction at all, I really hope Ocean will reconsider, and I clearly hope he won't remake it from chapter 1 too because if he does that, it's gonna be a shit show sadly.

 

[yossa999]

Just my two cents
When we talk about blood family I reflexively think that William chose to run away as a response to Katie's blackmail out of shame or fear of rejection.
But when you talk about adoptive families the first reason that comes to mind is the fear of being kicked out so he preferred to exile himself to safeguard Leia.
View attachment 3860237

I see. My point is that this can only be one of the possible interpretations of what happened. In fact, the author can put whatever meaning he wants into this situation.

Like if MC didn't believe their adoptive parents truly loved them as their own children and was afraid they might kick him and Leia out, as you say. This can have a deeper level of drama depending on whether he is right or not.

But I think Helen and Dylan really loved and cared about the roommates , so as good parents they wouldn't play favorites or treat their tenants any different from their own child. And I believe MC felt the same way about them. So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.