VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.220] [Lust & Passion]

[Sabertooth__]

The layer of the story is not the problem here, but you can have too many layers and the same themes that can cause redundancy in the story. For Example, do you need two blackmail paths in the story? Do you need multiple "Sex-Ed" themes in the story? Do you need numerous GF routes for Dylan in the story? Plus, if we look at how many characters in the story play a part in her corruption and the scenes with no corruption? Some play a role, and some don't. In the dental scene, for example, which was a conversation brought up multiple times, what was the point of that scene? Did it contribute to any corruption or good wife points? Another one is the mailman; besides the flash scene, which was more for Nathalie's path, what role does he play? No. And finally, The Museum Guys, It's my understanding that their final act is Saturday in the evening. Still, Sophia and Patricia only met them one time two weeks ago in the game, they provided one or two corruption points by trading phone numbers, but that was it. What is the point of this upcoming scene if their scenes end after this evening event? IMO, a hand full of characters like 10-15 could have worked out. And right now, we have no clue if anyone on this list will make a comeback.

I agree with the ambitious part. He should have started small and worked towards a larger setting with support staff, but he chose to be a one-person show; for the most part, I think he has 2 or 3 people helping him, but I don't know how significant their roles are in the novel's production. I think Bibifoc helps with coding for the most part. He could have expanded his AWAM universe as he built up support for it.

I think AWAM was scaled at one point. If you remember his post about four years ago on F95, he said he only needed 3 or 4 years to tell the story. When he saw his positive reactions, L&P chose to expand it, but the expansion probably didn't play out as he thought.

Bennett has more or less been removed so there is only one Blackmail path in the game.
Sex ed theme is repeated but it is a on and off theme in different storylines except for the 2nd job. Dylan's last Jogging scene has nothing to do with sex ed. Ellie didn't use thes ex ed theme until the last scene. Even in PD 16 it doesn't look like she will be using it. So just because a theme appears once again in another route, you intend to say that such characters and route should be entirely removed. There are no writers in the world who write big stories and Don't call back on themes they have already used. Since from a writer's pov it adds a better connection and makes the character projecting such theme more consistent. Sophia instinctively takes on a teacher role and is caring.

And some of the scenes like the dentist visit, grocery shopping, bank, Tickling Dylan and such scenes, they didn't corrupt her but the fact that you see this second largest thread, people dying to see Sophia have sex. Hating and abusing the dev, impossibly long development periods, no salvation in sight for another decade, and still people are here and still want to see it all, is because the character is compelling. Sophia is compelling. All these scenes make that happen. Otherwise you definitely have milf characters in other games, going from one corruption scene to another. Don't see them have such popularity and craze though.

Dylan routes are unnecessary. I see no need for them. Dylan wants to have a gf. Just let him have Amber. Christine, Marie and Emma, is too much. I don't really think anybody at all cares for Dylan's success with multiple women.

The mailman i will disagree. What do you suggest, that he is introduced out if nowhere and has a full fledged sexual scene with Sophia ? Ofcourse there needs to be some buildup. He is hardly even talking renders or development time. Even till now he hardly has 20 renders in his name. L&P has said that he will have an interesting role later in the game.

He should form a team is something we a agree on. And even after that he must be willing to delegate authority as well. If he still keeps interfering with all the work, it would lead to no benefit.

 

[bardock8114]

The layer of the story is not the problem here, but you can have too many layers and the same themes that can cause redundancy in the story. For Example, do you need two blackmail paths in the story? Do you need multiple "Sex-Ed" themes in the story? Do you need numerous GF routes for Dylan in the story? Plus, if we look at how many characters in the story play a part in her corruption and the scenes with no corruption? Some play a role, and some don't. In the dental scene, for example, which was a conversation brought up multiple times, what was the point of that scene? Did it contribute to any corruption or good wife points? No. Another one is the mailman; besides the flash scene, which was more for Nathalie's path, what role does he play? And finally, The Museum Guys, It's my understanding that their final act is Saturday in the evening. Still, Sophia and Patricia only met them one time two weeks ago in the game, they provided one or two corruption points by trading phone numbers, but that was it. What is the point of this upcoming scene if their scenes end after this evening event? IMO, a hand full of characters like 10-15 could have worked out. And right now, we have no clue if anyone on this list will make a comeback.

I agree with the ambitious part. He should have started small and worked towards a larger setting with support staff, but he chose to be a one-person show; for the most part, I think he has 2 or 3 people helping him, but I don't know how significant their roles are in the novel's production. I think Bibifoc helps with coding for the most part. He could have expanded his AWAM universe as he built up support for it.

I think AWAM was scaled at one point. If you remember his post about four years ago on F95, he said he only needed 3 or 4 years to tell the story. When he saw his positive reactions, L&P chose to expand it, but the expansion probably didn't play out as he thought.

While I clearly think there are too many routes and some he probably has closed already (subway guys) I do not think the Janitor comes back (maybe with AIDEN). Milkman was never a route IMO. I think it was a good thing to wait for so long

lets take the Museum guys for example. There was no point in bringing them back early because nothing would have happen with them. Now with Part two we all these events actually get more and more explicit. I think the Lesson update and SAM Update afterwards willo show this especially.

Now with the musuem guys we actually could expect something like a Blowjob (not sex because they are too early for that) but at least something.

Part 2 has certainly escalated the avialable routes so far on a high level and it will not get less explicit IMO but rather more and more explicit (So I can still dream for my Gangbang with Team AIDEN XD

 

[armion82]

I'm not much more than a beta tester now.

You should pass the trial and become an alpha tester.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

Bennett has more or less been removed so there is only one Blackmail path in the game.
Sex ed theme is repeated but it is a on and off theme in different storylines except for the 2nd job. Dylan's last Jogging scene has nothing to do with sex ed. Ellie didn't use thes ex ed theme until the last scene. Even in PD 16 it doesn't look like she will be using it. So just because a theme appears once again in another route, you intend to say that such characters and route should be entirely removed. There are no writers in the world who write big stories and Don't call back on themes they have already used. Since from a writer's pov it adds a better connection and makes the character projecting such theme more consistent. Sophia instinctively takes on a teacher role and is caring.

And some of the scenes like the dentist visit, grocery shopping, bank, Tickling Dylan and such scenes, they didn't corrupt her but the fact that you see this second largest thread, people dying to see Sophia have sex. Hating and abusing the dev, impossibly long development periods, no salvation in sight for another decade, and still people are here and still want to see it all, is because the character is compelling. Sophia is compelling. All these scenes make that happen. Otherwise you definitely have milf characters in other games, going from one corruption scene to another. Don't see them have such popularity and craze though.

Dylan routes are unnecessary. I see no need for them. Dylan wants to have a gf. Just let him have Amber. Christine, Marie and Emma, is too much. I don't really think anybody at all cares for Dylan's success with multiple women.

The mailman i will disagree. What do you suggest, that he is introduced out if nowhere and has a full fledged sexual scene with Sophia ? Ofcourse there needs to be some buildup. He is hardly even talking renders or development time. Even till now he hardly has 20 renders in his name. L&P has said that he will have an interesting role later in the game.

He should form a team is something we a agree on. And even after that he must be willing to delegate authority as well. If he still keeps interfering with all the work, it would lead to no benefit.

What build up with the mailman? There has only been talking about how their day is going, except in the Nat scene. There hasn't been any as of yet. It has been mostly a casual conversation about how are you doing. If there was going to be a build, that should have happened in part one.

And some of the scenes like the dentist visit, grocery shopping, bank, Tickling Dylan and such scenes, they didn't corrupt her but the fact that you see this second largest thread, people dying to see Sophia have sex.

I'm not following your point here... What does the second largest thread have to do with if there was any corruption or not in the dentist scene or the other examples you followed up with??? In the final save, Dylan's tickle somehow plays a role so that scene is a relevant and possible outcome in a future scene. The dentist, not at all.

day11_Sophia_Dylan_tickled:bool:True

still people are here and still want to see it all, is because the character is compelling. Sophia is compelling. All these scenes make that happen.

Please explain how the dentist and grocery scene makes her want to have sex with other men. People are compelled to see her eventually dominated by Aiden, be with Dylan, Sam, Ellie, and Patricia, or a combination of all, and they are compelled on the relevant path that leads her there. Sophia's teeth cleaning doesn't feed into that at all, nor does the grocery shopping, as they are filler scenes or irrelevant scenes. Unless you're trying to tell me that after Sophia gives a BJ to someone, we get this scene.


That's sarcasm btw.

Bennett has more or less been removed so there is only one Blackmail path in the game.
Sex ed theme is repeated but it is a on and off theme in different storylines except for the 2nd job. Dylan's last Jogging scene has nothing to do with sex ed. Ellie didn't use thes ex ed theme until the last scene. Even in PD 16 it doesn't look like she will be using it. So just because a theme appears once again in another route, you intend to say that such characters and route should be entirely removed. There are no writers in the world who write big stories and Don't call back on themes they have already used. Since from a writer's pov it adds a better connection and makes the character projecting such theme more consistent. Sophia instinctively takes on a teacher role and is caring.

Bennett hasn't been removed. His story was shortened to end sooner than expected. Bennett's story was supposed to serve as the single male blackmail, as Aiden's blackmail was served to be more of a gang bang blackmail. Dylan's story of "Sex-Ed" isn't over yet it played out in the jogging scene. The jogging scene is the cracking of ice to morph it into something else towards the end of that scene.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

While I clearly think there are too many routes and some he probably has closed already (subway guys) I do not think the Janitor comes back (maybe with AIDEN). Milkman was never a route IMO. I think it was a good thing to wait for so long

lets take the Museum guys for example. There was no point in bringing them back early because nothing would have happen with them. Now with Part two we all these events actually get more and more explicit. I think the Lesson update and SAM Update afterwards willo show this especially.

Now with the musuem guys we actually could expect something like a Blowjob (not sex because they are too early for that) but at least something.

Part 2 has certainly escalated the avialable routes so far on a high level and it will not get less explicit IMO but rather more and more explicit (So I can still dream for my Gangbang with Team AIDEN XD

With the Museum guys, They only met once, which was two weeks ago in-game, and even though their second meeting is in the next PD, that is their last meeting, as that is supposed to close their route. and if we use your example that it could in with a BJ, that would make me question how she went from meeting them two weeks ago to going down on them on their final scene together. That just doesn't make sense from the story pov as there was really no build-up, but she can still do it as it would be a slut reaction.

 

[Sabertooth__]

What build up with the mailman? There has only been talking about how their day is going, except in the Nat scene. There hasn't been any as of yet. It has been mostly a casual conversation about how are you doing. If there was going to be a build, that should have happened in part one.

And some of the scenes like the dentist visit, grocery shopping, bank, Tickling Dylan and such scenes, they didn't corrupt her but the fact that you see this second largest thread, people dying to see Sophia have sex.

I'm not following your point here... What does the second largest thread have to do with if there was any corruption or not in the dentist scene or the other examples you followed up with??? In the final save, Dylan's tickle somehow plays a role so that scene is a relevant and possible outcome in a future scene. The dentist, not at all.

day11_Sophia_Dylan_tickled:bool:True

still people are here and still want to see it all, is because the character is compelling. Sophia is compelling. All these scenes make that happen.

Please explain how the dentist and grocery scene makes her want to have sex with other men. People are compelled to see her eventually dominated by Aiden, be with Dylan, Sam, Ellie, and Patricia, or a combination of all, and they are compelled on the relevant path that leads her there. Sophia's teeth cleaning doesn't feed into that at all, nor does the grocery shopping, as they are filler scenes or irrelevant scenes. Unless you're trying to tell me that after Sophia gives a BJ to someone, we get this scene.

View attachment 1953310
That's sarcasm btw.

Bennett has more or less been removed so there is only one Blackmail path in the game.
Sex ed theme is repeated but it is a on and off theme in different storylines except for the 2nd job. Dylan's last Jogging scene has nothing to do with sex ed. Ellie didn't use thes ex ed theme until the last scene. Even in PD 16 it doesn't look like she will be using it. So just because a theme appears once again in another route, you intend to say that such characters and route should be entirely removed. There are no writers in the world who write big stories and Don't call back on themes they have already used. Since from a writer's pov it adds a better connection and makes the character projecting such theme more consistent. Sophia instinctively takes on a teacher role and is caring.

Bennett hasn't been removed. His story was shortened to end sooner than expected. Bennett's story was supposed to serve as the single male blackmail, as Aiden's blackmail was served to be more of a gang bang blackmail. Dylan's story of "Sex-Ed" isn't over yet it played out in the jogging scene. The jogging scene is the cracking of ice to morph it into something else towards the end of that scene.

What build up with the mailman?
if you didn't pay attention, the mailman is constantly flirting with Sophia. He has developed a sort of a relationship with Sophia. Dylan too acknowledges that. Now whenever something bigger happens with him there is ground work already in place. The Nathalie scene was a small realisation of the little time given to Murray. If anything he has established a relationship of a character with Sophia with minimal renders, something similar he did on the first job for 2-3 scenes. Even Zac has been done in the same way. His scenes are mostly blended with Alyssa and last time even Aiden's task. He is pretty far ahead among the guys and guess what he only has had 127 renders in his storyline. His progress was mixed along with other routes. This is the subtle buildup that has been done with numerous characters. Instead of just randomly having some character barge into the story and get a huge scene with Sophia.


Regarding the part you didn't follow, that is that L&P showed Sophia as a more real person than majority of the porn games with female leads who have nothing but sex scenes after sex scene, or endless corruption scenes and seem to have no life or activities outside of it. Sophia does things that a normal woman would also do in her day to day life. Cheering up her kids, taking care of the house, of herself and so on. This human touch is what is compelling about Sophia. People are so into Sophia is because she is different from the typical female MC's. These small day to day life moments humanize a character and makes them relatable to people. This a formula used throughout shows and movies. What attaches you to characters aren't their most glorious moments, but the wholesome, most normal moments where they exhibit they are human just like the people playing the games and watching the shows. If you still don't get it, then i cannot explain to you anything more. It is an attachment made without even realising. This is what has gotten people talking and coming back here even when nothing is seemingly the way they want. That is the relevance of me mentioning the thread size and so on. It has been seen for a long time that people find it extremely tough to let go of this game. They hate the dev, they hate the pace, some even hate the content but they still comeback. It is only the character that brings you back.

Regarding Bennett i said more or less removed. He only has one or two events left in the entire game. Which is at this point as good as non existent.

The Jogging scene is your speculation as of now whether it joins sex ed or not. It can come true but it can also be false and story may take a turn. Or once again it could revisit the theme for one scene and be gone in the next few. There is no basis for that.

 

[bardock8114]

With the Museum guys, They only met once, which was two weeks ago in-game, and even though their second meeting is in the next PD, that is their last meeting, as that is supposed to close their route. and if we use your example that it could in with a BJ, that would make me question how she went from meeting them two weeks ago to going down on them on their final scene together. That just doesn't make sense from the story pov as there was really no build-up, but she can still do it as it would be a slut reaction.

It depends. Maybe they get her drunk and it is always easier to actually do this stuff with strangers with no strings attached then the sons best friend or even thge son itself. So just because they will never meet it is easier to happen in real life if its just sex and not more.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

It depends. Maybe they get her drunk and it is always easier to actually do this stuff with strangers with no strings attached then the sons best friend or even thge son itself. So just because they will never meet it is easier to happen in real life if its just sex and not more.

It wouldn't surprise me if alcohol is introduced in that scene. I could see it happen. But getting drunk with two people they met two weeks ago..... yeah.

 

[bardock8114]

It wouldn't surprise me if alcohol is introduced in that scene. I could see it happen. But getting drunk with two people they met two weeks ago..... yeah.

Isnt Patricia also with them? Remember the scene in the club? He was already close to her pussy that time. She will be the iniciator if something will happen

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

Isnt Patricia also with them? Remember the scene in the club? He was already close to her pussy that time. She will be the iniciator if something will happen

Yes, it was Sophia and Patricia. But they are not the ones from the club. These are two different people. Jason and Haru are the museum guys. The club members were Logan, Tyler, and Kevin, when Sophia, Patricia, and Ellie met them at the spa.

 

[bardock8114]

Yes, it was Sophia and Patricia. But they are not the ones from the club. These are two different people. Jason and Haru are the museum guys. The club members were Logan, Tyler, and Kevin, when Sophia, Patricia, and Ellie met them at the spa.

Yes but it went pretty far for her already that time now they are two strangers again

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

Yes but it went pretty far for her already that time now they are two strangers again

View attachment 1953549

Yeah, but there is a difference between a club setting and the way that played out from the start vs. how the museum is playing out presently. Reread the scenes, and you'll see.

 

[jamdan]

I'd be pretty surprised if the museum date is anything other than Patricia flirting (including sexual flirting) and Sophia being very uneasy about the whole thing but excited about it. She'll probably have an option to either go along with it, or go home (good wife). The go along with it option will likely include an escalatory option too. LP tends to do a lot of his paths like that, providing an out and if it isn't taken it escalates. But I don't think it goes as far as direct sexual contact like a BJ.

Maybe a boob flash or a lite grope. The former is instigated by Patricia, the latter by the boys. Perhaps in either order.

 

[Lukereds]

You can write a book with all the comments in this topic.
Let proceed with next short update the artist so we can see the real confused storyline.

 

[Alley_Cat]

I'd be pretty surprised if the museum date is anything other than Patricia flirting (including sexual flirting) and Sophia being very uneasy about the whole thing but excited about it. She'll probably have an option to either go along with it, or go home (good wife). The go along with it option will likely include an escalatory option too. LP tends to do a lot of his paths like that, providing an out and if it isn't taken it escalates. But I don't think it goes as far as direct sexual contact like a BJ.

Maybe a boob flash or a lite grope. The former is instigated by Patricia, the latter by the boys. Perhaps in either order.

That the very next event is Patricia's big one also makes me think Jason and Haru might not get much at the museum date. That the boys know the girls are sisters, and they're in public as well.

As opposed to PD15, where Zoe might not know or care that they are sisters, especially if she knows Patricia's proclivities, and the event is 40 miles out of the city, so unlikely to bump into anyone who might not like Sophia and Patricia fooling around.

 

[XaGnard]

All this talk of too many characters, or a story that's too slow, just highlights the no-win scenario for fans of this game. What makes AWAM special (aside from the great art) is that it's a layered story. Too many games only focus in on the main/core characters, and that gets old really quickly. On paper, I think there's good sense behind how the story is paced because, at its best, it provides for a logical progression of Sophia's corruption. I think all of us can agree that we like that her corruption has been a gradual process. And part of that process is that she interacts with a wide cast of characters who all have their role to play in her corruption. It isn't just the same two characters, scene after scene, day after day, update after update. There's a real attempt to make her progress feel organic.

The real problem, the original sin, is that this game is simply too ambitious for one person. Even with diligent planning (which we know he doesn't do), this game cannot be completed in a reasonable time frame. Both the story, and its development, are too slow. Each update takes too long and advances the plot too little to really feel satisfying. But, if he were to cut content, and focus exclusively on the main characters, the game would lose a good deal of what makes it attractive. Sure, in the short-term I think a lot of people would be happy, and he may even make more money, but I think that approach would undermine what makes the game special.

People are tired of the slow burn, the constant delays to development, and the prospect of another decade before there's actual sex. Outside of building a mid-size team to develop the game alongside him, the only solution that would result in faster progress would be to cut content and characters. And while I do agree that cutting some characters/content could improve the game, I don't think it would be too long before you would make cuts that would detract from the game.

The long and short of it is that fans of AWAM are in a no-win situation because the game was not properly scaled to what one person can create in a reasonable timeframe.

Complexity (or a "layered story") can indeed be a feature of a good story. So I think it's good to give space to side characters as well, to make the story more interesting overall. There is depth in knowing how the MC's husband or her children think. Here, L&P should not make any cutbacks.

However, when it comes to the number of side stories there are many ways to shorten the content so that the overall quality of the game is improved rather than degraded. I think the best example of this are the side jobs. These scenes do not give any depth to the actual story, but represent in themselves completely detached additional stories. Leaving them out could be a straightforward idea to save time and it would improve the quality of the game, because, let's face it, the sex-ed events in particular are just very unrealistic.

 

[Radoslaw Wolf]

It wouldn't surprise me if alcohol is introduced in that scene. I could see it happen. But getting drunk with two people they met two weeks ago..... yeah.

Alcohol has been introduced already before, e.g. with Sam while lawn mowing or posing during the art class.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

Alcohol has been introduced already before, e.g. with Sam while lawn mowing or posing during the art class.

Really????

 

[Radoslaw Wolf]

Really????

It doesn't seem to be that clear to everyone. Anyway, look at my avatar

 

[Lord_Xanatos]

Progress Report Ver. 0.170.

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