Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.40] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[YouShallNotLol]

Wait it's actually canon that one of the side characters can actually do better at being champ than you? Than why isnt he out there fightning already?

When champ was getting dicked down by futa cocks.
He was studying the blade.

 

[LubricatedKitty]

That's really one of my main gripes with the setting. Savin was so eager to stop the power fantasy of the chosen one, that he wrote himself into a pickle. There are just no real reason for you to save the world. Except the fact that Kas wants your soul which got "empowered" by chance.
We have 7 "gods" who could easily stop Kas, but just don't? But also some non gods apparently could do it like Carmen, who just doesn't because of she has ptsd from blowing up Hawkethorne in the past by "accident".

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Like bro we get it, the champ doesn't matter. Kassyra will never succeed with her plan. She is no threat to this world.

There is just a real disconnect with the stakes in this.
That happens when you want to make a world ending threat, but also don't want to do the "generic power fantasy".

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Better start praying that we don't just "tip the scales" at the end of the game.

I mean the same thing happens with Aang in Avatar TLA. He hurts Katara and he swears never to firebend again. It's a common story trope where people who can't control their power hurt others and would rather not fight at all moving forward.

Some stories handle it far better than others. Though Savin and team aren't established writers like the people who make these popular shows and franchises are. So it makes sense they may not be able to write the type of stories they're looking to write.

It seems they're strengths are smut scenes, basic lore creation (not more advanced lore creation), and moment to moment writing, occasionally relationships. Horrible at story consistency and protagonist.

 

[K1ng_C00mer]

I mean the same thing happens with Aang in Avatar TLA. He hurts Katara and he swears never to firebend again. It's a common story trope where people who can't control their power hurt others and would rather not fight at all moving forward.

Some stories handle it far better than others. Though Savin and team aren't established writers like the people who make these popular shows and franchises are. So it makes sense they may not be able to write the type of stories they're looking to write.

It seems they're strengths are smut scenes, basic lore creation (not more advanced lore creation), and moment to moment writing, occasionally relationships. Horrible at story consistency and protagonist.

Well, this game was based off of Savin and his friend's DND campaigns. I'm pretty sure Savin thought this was his big break, his chance to really show everyone his skills as a dungeon master and writer and craft this rich world filled with lore. You see it in the decisions he makes. We're not like other fantasy! Our dragons are dead! Our Minotaurs are smart! And it's bronze aged even though nothing really shows this, but it's like this because technology regressed from fucking magical steampunk with fucking battleships even though that's not how technology works and the Kitsune know ironworking and why the fuck hasn't anyone just stole the tech or a disgruntled Kitsune blacksmith just go work for someone else holy shit Savin how fucking stupid are you- Ahem

Like I said in a previous post. I think Savin knows to an extent he's fucked it up. The issue is, it's been nearly seven years and it's too late to reverse course. It would mean essentially going back and deleting years worth of work to try to fix things. Entire quest lines, characters, locations, and items would need to be revised, and where would you start? Honestly, it's stuff like that which makes me hesitant when I think about modding this game, it's why I was waiting for this game to get nearer to the end so that I can finally get an overview of how much I'm going to have to gut and fix.

The Kitsune who were my main focus are going to take a lot of effort. I've only sort of given thought about the Mallachites, and the Orcs. I've not even touched on the Minos, the Elves, the other religions, what I'd want to do with Garth and his family, the other companions besides Kiyoko, the Baroness and Evergreen, Evelyn, Berwyn, Kas and Tollus, making the Winter City not suck, making the writing consistent, trimming Tobs' writing, and that's not touching the dozens of other side stuff like one off characters, finishing abandoned characters, and adding new stuff.

 

[ExcitedTengu]

There is actually a post currently on the patreon where you can vote, for what gets focused on next.
View attachment 4600513

For what purpose? When has "mayternity" ever actually been anything other than a disappointment?

 

[YouShallNotLol]

For what purpose? When has "mayternity" ever actually been anything other than a disappointment?

So they can crank out more preg expansions for no-names like Nottia.

 

[namelessdudewithnoname]

WYNNE AND MATIHA PREGNANCY BUSTS!?????? aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[LubricatedKitty]

Well, this game was based off of Savin and his friend's DND campaigns. I'm pretty sure Savin thought this was his big break, his chance to really show everyone his skills as a dungeon master and writer and craft this rich world filled with lore. You see it in the decisions he makes. We're not like other fantasy! Our dragons are dead! Our Minotaurs are smart! And it's bronze aged even though nothing really shows this, but it's like this because technology regressed from fucking magical steampunk with fucking battleships even though that's not how technology works and the Kitsune know ironworking and why the fuck hasn't anyone just stole the tech or a disgruntled Kitsune blacksmith just go work for someone else holy shit Savin how fucking stupid are you- Ahem

Like I said in a previous post. I think Savin knows to an extent he's fucked it up. The issue is, it's been nearly seven years and it's too late to reverse course. It would mean essentially going back and deleting years worth of work to try to fix things. Entire quest lines, characters, locations, and items would need to be revised, and where would you start? Honestly, it's stuff like that which makes me hesitant when I think about modding this game, it's why I was waiting for this game to get nearer to the end so that I can finally get an overview of how much I'm going to have to gut and fix.

The Kitsune who were my main focus are going to take a lot of effort. I've only sort of given thought about the Mallachites, and the Orcs. I've not even touched on the Minos, the Elves, the other religions, what I'd want to do with Garth and his family, the other companions besides Kiyoko, the Baroness and Evergreen, Evelyn, Berwyn, Kas and Tollus, making the Winter City not suck, making the writing consistent, trimming Tobs' writing, and that's not touching the dozens of other side stuff like one off characters, finishing abandoned characters, and adding new stuff.

Well the good news is that I am adding an event player and event editor to the game with the game editor mod I set up, with filtering, so people don't have to scour the code for which events x character has if they want to do a complete makeover of the characters and their storylines in this game.

All events and dialogue in the entire game will be in one place, and events would be easy to find.

So it would take considerably less effort to update storylines as time goes by. It's probably an easier system to use than the ones the devs are using to keep track of their storylines.

 

[Jbuster]

Well the good news is that I am adding an event player and event editor to the game with the game editor mod I set up, with filtering, so people don't have to scour the code for which events x character has if they want to do a complete makeover of the characters and their storylines in this game.

All events and dialogue in the entire game will be in one place, and events would be easy to find.

So it would take considerably less effort to update storylines as time goes by. It's probably an easier system to use than the ones the devs are using to keep track of their storylines.

You know this will help a lot when and if we reach the final just to learn the big moral lesson hiding in this gem

That everyone could be a hero, but you, the hero

Your champion is an accessory helping in everyone's different quests lines, you're helping Cait in getting back her sister and becoming saintess whore favored by her god, Brint gets to be an amazing hero/Brianne fulfills the purpose of the cursed armor, Atugia learns about her powers/that she isn't alone because of the satyrs and maybe something else, bee girl already got her colony back and a lumian gf, Etheryn becomes a queen and reclaims her throne, Arona is chief and her clan has to do as she says, Kiyoko got back from the sphere dimension and got to do what she wanted to do since forever, and the others tag along and are happy to be included

And all of this would be good if the champion got more than deciding where's the next quest line gonna take them in the real big quest, which is to either save Kasyrra or not and give/return her soul

Right now the champion is a great dildo/fuck hole/Swiss army knife, your reasons to be at that tavern that night are pretty much forgotten and let's face it, you were never going to win this fight on your own, if you ever could because defeating the big evil is a power fantasy, and we can't have that

You're playing as a walking plot device that gets to do stuff just because the writers can't just insert themselves as much as they want, because when they do, it's awful and no one likes it

Nakano is boring, Takahiro is boring, boulder puncher guy from the mountains that rambles about visions and destiny is boring

Calise is the best champion/chosen one alternative and only because she's already a better character overall

It must kill them that the poorly designed, ambivalent, fuck toy champion you play as is still a better character than their OCs

Anyway, it won't matter at the end. You'll get scripted to your mandatory lesson about whatever motivates Savin while Tobs smirks and nods behind him, so sit back on mommy Kasyrra's lap and enjoy, it's gonna be a bumpy ride

 

[YouShallNotLol]

Calise is the best champion/chosen one alternative and only because she's already a better character overall

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[namelessdudewithnoname]

View attachment 4601476

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We used to joke about Champion teasing Kas constantly to Calise in /cocg/
"Ah Calise I'm sorry my heart has already been taken...by Kas"
That whole thing was figured out almost immediately after her first appearance

 

[muschi26]

View attachment 4601476

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It’s too bad, really, cause she’s 1000× hotter as Calise.

And has no dick.

 

[Raptor_RXN]

We used to joke about Champion teasing Kas constantly to Calise in /cocg/
"Ah Calise I'm sorry my heart has already been taken...by Kas"
That whole thing was figured out almost immediately after her first appearance View attachment 4601700

If it wasn't for Kas describing her human form and it 100% matching Calise, and then the art of her with the demon eyes, there might have been a chance for it to have actually gone under the radar.
Also,
>Kas-Calise teasing
>Punished cait
>Wife group calls
/cocg/ had some top quality material

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

I agree and I've said it a few times. In CoC2, you feel interchangeable. Like if you weren't there to go on this adventure. Someone else would eventually do it. Which if I'm being honest. Isn't necessarily a terrible thing. Just depends on ones outlook and expectations. In this game you are average joe. Who happened to be at the right place at the right time. It's not that only you could do it. You just happened to get there 1st.

In CoC1, as I adventured around and did things. I didn't feel like the perfect savior. But while playing, never did I feel replaceable. Yea they would send someone else if you failed. But that new person probably ain't making it long. If you don't do it, it will never get done. This is your job, this is your story, struggle and get it done.

In CoC2? Blindfold yourself, spin around until dizzy, and point to a random OC. Then ask yourself. Could they possibly do it if you didn't? Would it take any effort for a writer. To replace you with them? And the answer is kinda obvious. It's like you sometimes compete for who is actually at center stage. Shadow boxing the writers through NPCs.

And again, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Average joe rising up the ranks is standard fare. It's just this game can sometimes get iffy with it. In CoC1, if the player dies. Game pretty much is done. CoC2, if the player dies. You would absolutely get replaced with a self insert. Who is probably going to do a much better job then you ever could.

I'll say it for you then, it is bad that the MC can be replaced by anybody else. There's a reason the regular 9-5 is despised now, everyone is replaceable and if that's the case you don't feel like you matter at all. Like you said, in the CoC1, things felt like it was unique to your character. The MC had a goal, went on a journey, meet people that aided him and he in turn help them/recruited them. It's was player driven and while not everything bends to the player (which is good) they atleast react or is influenced by the player and theor decisions.
I keep mentioning Fallout New Vegas whenever player accountablity comes up because it really should be the baseline for rpgs imo.

 

[Jbuster]

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Oh I know plenty, in fact, her whole development should be considered cheating because she got TWICE the attention and detail any other character had without the boring, endless slog that usually follows... except maybe for the cooking aspect, let's not do that

We are in her redemption arc, soon we will have to fight against demon Tollus and all because murder/mayhem wolf woman didn't care about killing this guy as she was too busy chopping his dumbest minions

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Well, there's no stakes in CoC II. It's been said a million and one times already, but what the hell is Kas doing that's any worse than everything else in Savarra!? Tollus and the cult are all natives from Savarra, so it's not Kas who was calling the shots with regards to them. I won't event touch on how fucking stupid Tollus's backstory is in Gweyr's quest. You could say she's fucking with portals and could pull in Wraiths, but I feel that's a weak argument given the "gods" of this world and the fact that they all showed up randomly one day, so you know, if Wraiths could rain from the sky at any given moment, who cares!? Kas screwing with people's souls is again a nothingburger. We have a race that literally lack souls, and they seem normal enough, apparently the gods are all happy to watch her experimenting on people too.

The demons we meet aren't even that different or bad compared to other NPCs. In CoC I, every demon you encounter was a threat, or at least, someone you had to keep your guard up. Whether it was Ceraph or Vapula who you could enslave and were terrorizing certain locations. The demons at the factory that were pumping shit into the water of the lake. Zetaz who clearly was a bad guy. For all I hear Savin and Co complaining about Lethice being a bad villian, she at least felt like a villian. They all posed a real threat to the remaining few who weren't corrupted.

It also showed exactly how corruption changes a person and makes them willing to set aside their morals. It wasn't just a switch to make someone dress in goth style and act kinky, it felt like a tangible, irreversable change to someone's personality.

Having a story where someone comes from nothing works when that someone shows a tangible growth. Power wise, do we feel any different from day one? I know in CoC I, we start out alone and practically defenseless in an alien world that's on the brink of falling. By the time you're able to assault Lethice's castle, you've got a thriving settlement filled with people you care about. You've cleared dungeons and built up a coalition to oppose the demons and thwarted their plans. You've learned various skills and perks that made you feel stronger, and enemies you couldn't have taken on earlier now fall to you like chumps. It felt like you've reversed the tides, or at least, took over and made them work in your favor.

Where is this growth in CoC II? I know the meme answer is "It'S nOT a PoWEr fAnTaSy!111!" but being serious for a moment, Savin himself seems to know this on some level. His constant tweaking of the combat system, him saying how if he ever makes another game, it's going to be a visual novel with a story focus. He knows he bit off way more than he can chew.

As much as I love her, romancing Kas has, ironically screwed the narrative. Because you've taken away the big bad, and the only replacment is Tollus, who frankly sucks shit. He's not threatening in the slightest, and he's only allowed to exist because our protagnists are so stupid/incompetent to not just cave his skull in. Kas too. She talks about how she knows he's using her and how his cult is bad and it's like... Just fucking kill him then? What the hell is he going to do to you? What does he provide you that you can't just get otherwise?

Here's the thing mate, it's a writer's problem and a project lead issue not the fact tht it's too big to chew on. Savin made Kas an all-powerful pushover retroactively, Tollus could've been a threat but was made into a fang-less bitch. Second is that they weirdly stay away from showcasing violence and it's morbid outcomes but love to use it as backdrop and set dressing. If he does do another project it'll end up just like Coc2. Because the wrong lessons are being learned.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Something I'd like to add is that most of the "romance" options in the game aren't even romance: Brienne is genuinely a corruption type route for Brint in all but name - his whole personality gets wiped, agrees to everything we do and holds zero boundaries and is almost slave-like, the Horsegirl princess is just handed to you and is down to fuck and marry off the bat with zero chemistry establish or made.
Ryn is weird for me because she is basically thrusted on you, seriously a good chunk of the game is dedicated to her and I can't blame anyone for getting attached because the plot Stockholm syndromes you into liking her. But I will say that being able to influence her personality and look to a certain extent.

Main problem again boils down to the PC not having any personality traits for the character to play with. What do they love about us? What traits do we have that make them love or like us?

 

[Titan king]

Can't believe the clown on patreon are voting for shiternity, no wonder this game is hot garbage, they are getting paid to produce trash

 

[ChubbyFatBoy]

You know this will help a lot when and if we reach the final just to learn the big moral lesson hiding in this gem

That everyone could be a hero, but you, the hero

Your champion is an accessory helping in everyone's different quests lines, you're helping Cait in getting back her sister and becoming saintess whore favored by her god, Brint gets to be an amazing hero/Brianne fulfills the purpose of the cursed armor, Atugia learns about her powers/that she isn't alone because of the satyrs and maybe something else, bee girl already got her colony back and a lumian gf, Etheryn becomes a queen and reclaims her throne, Arona is chief and her clan has to do as she says, Kiyoko got back from the sphere dimension and got to do what she wanted to do since forever, and the others tag along and are happy to be included

And all of this would be good if the champion got more than deciding where's the next quest line gonna take them in the real big quest, which is to either save Kasyrra or not and give/return her soul

Right now the champion is a great dildo/fuck hole/Swiss army knife, your reasons to be at that tavern that night are pretty much forgotten and let's face it, you were never going to win this fight on your own, if you ever could because defeating the big evil is a power fantasy, and we can't have that

You're playing as a walking plot device that gets to do stuff just because the writers can't just insert themselves as much as they want, because when they do, it's awful and no one likes it

Nakano is boring, Takahiro is boring, boulder puncher guy from the mountains that rambles about visions and destiny is boring

Calise is the best champion/chosen one alternative and only because she's already a better character overall

It must kill them that the poorly designed, ambivalent, fuck toy champion you play as is still a better character than their OCs

Anyway, it won't matter at the end. You'll get scripted to your mandatory lesson about whatever motivates Savin while Tobs smirks and nods behind him, so sit back on mommy Kasyrra's lap and enjoy, it's gonna be a bumpy ride

I've said though somewhat jokingly. That if they could still get paid regardless. We would be written out of the story.

But hey, we got the next best thing!

 

[K1ng_C00mer]

Here's the thing mate, it's a writer's problem and a project lead issue not the fact tht it's too big to chew on. Savin made Kas an all-powerful pushover retroactively, Tollus could've been a threat but was made into a fang-less bitch. Second is that they weirdly stay away from showcasing violence and it's morbid outcomes but love to use it as backdrop and set dressing. If he does do another project it'll end up just like Coc2. Because the wrong lessons are being learned.

It's too big to chew on for someone like Savin. But let's be real here, anyone at Fenoxo including the OG himself utterly sucks at finishing their games. CoC is not finished. I will fight people irl if they unironically tell me otherwise. Look at what's happened to TiTs, entire chunks of the game, whole planets that carry on the story, various storylines that were hyped for years suddenly get axed and tossed into the wastebin. The same thing's happened in CoC II, with most of the corrupt paths outright being scrapped or scaled back to mean nothing, but I'm honestly surprised no location's been outright axed given the track record of this team.

I mean, I suppose it helps Savin is a bit more tight lipped on what the plans are going forward other than some vague statments like "Next is Salamander city", "The game is 60% done", or "The final area is going to be the ziggurat".

The thing about violence always has been head scratcher for me. They act like Patreon is like YouTube where you'll get demonitized for just saying fuck, but honestly, I've seen plently of projects with stuff they claim isn't allowed. The entire "Carmen can't be a real vampire!" situation is a prime example of this. Look. I'm not asking for a return to CoC I where you could casually commit incest with your kids, but come on. If you're going to tell me gutting someone is going to axe your game, at least pretend to seriously act like that's the case instead of inserting Gweyr's child murder spree, have us able to kill Imps and the Centaur pack leader, and the original Hobgoblin loss scene that was straight up played 100% serious.

The only explaination is it's just laziness on Savin's part. He can't be arsed to make any alterations to an NPC unless it involves gluing a dick to them. I think that explains most of Savin's mentality. He hides behind a curtain of spite to mask the true fact that he wanted to play world builder and then got bored. He couldn't be bothered to make sure his writers were on the same page lorewise, couldn't be bothered to figure out what story he wanted to tell and what the stakes are, couldn't be bothered to reign them in and stop them from going full self-insert, couldn't be bothered to have them actually cater to what his playerbase is asking from them time and time and time again, couldn't be bothered to enforce deadlines fairly and strictly leaving to situations where Einen gets axed despite being almost complete but Bubs can go on vacation and his OCs are okay, couldn't be bothered to act like a real boss and stop his subordinates from starting catfights with each other, couldn't be bothered to do his own job and check every submission which lead to the Hobgoblin and Hashat scenes.

Even now the little times he's tried to course correct is too little, too late. It's like a drunk deadbeat clinging to his wife's dress, sobbing, "Don't leave me baby, I promise I'll be better!", then is sober for like a week before going back to the old routine again.

I feel zero sympathy for Savin. He brought all of this on himself.

 

[Trapitalism101]

Something I'd like to add is that most of the "romance" options in the game aren't even romance: Brienne is genuinely a corruption type route for Brint in all but name - his whole personality gets wiped, agrees to everything we do and holds zero boundaries and is almost slave-like, the Horsegirl princess is just handed to you and is down to fuck and marry off the bat with zero chemistry establish or made.
Ryn is weird for me because she is basically thrusted on you, seriously a good chunk of the game is dedicated to her and I can't blame anyone for getting attached because the plot Stockholm syndromes you into liking her. But I will say that being able to influence her personality and look to a certain extent.

Main problem again boils down to the PC not having any personality traits for the character to play with. What do they love about us? What traits do we have that make them love or like us?

One again, relationships are something CoC 1 did way better. Amily's pure route feels like slow relationship if you take the time, and if you become corrupted she reacts in heartbreak and horror. Even Isabella, who is kinda just DTF for the most part, reacts violently to a corrupted player when met initially. The actual corruption mattered, and even if it wasn't amazing writing, the characters felt like they made sense in the world. Part of the problem in COC 2 is that everyone is like Whitney's farm. The worst area in COC 1. Each character is someone's specific OC with very little flexibility in how you interact with them, and really inconsistent morality. I would honeslt prefer a remaster of CoC 1 in a non flash engine to any more of the CoC 2 mindless slog.