VN Ren'Py Imperial Chronicles [v0.8] [Lazy Monkey]

[storm1051787]

And who caused it? It's still Cassandra

Except she didn't cause it though and she didn't burn it down.

Of course HELLO?? The Mc happy wedding just ended then Cassandra: Hey let's make a coup to your father if you didn't agree a war will start and burn the kingdom. Like HUH? Like right now? where my weddings just ended? we doing this right now?

Again she didn't start the war, she didn't burn it down and the whole point of starting it on the wedding night is that it's the only time Priscilla could posion the king and take advantage of the sitation in the west.

"at" her absolute lowest? she's always have been in her absolute lowest

Bro I can't take you seriously if you just insist on having a bad faith illogical hate boner against the character for no reason.

+ to the uncle she was planning to put on the council she doesn't care if his uncle died because she got the bigger fish to manipulate and it's the MC. Her uncle is no use anymore because his only purpose is to vote the Mc to be Regent prince. That's why she has no reaction if Prescilla or her uncle died.

Her uncle doesn't even die unless you kill Cass.

There was no manipulation for priscilla. Her uncle cath and Priscilla were all in compete agreement and had the same Idea and I don't really get why you're

I'm literally giving "IN GAME" Proof

You're cherry picking and making a lot of mental gymnastics to jusify vilifying a character you dislike.
insisting that she tricked priscilla.

 

[storm1051787]

You can't even give one reason why Cassandra is good but I don't expect it from her she's a savage maniac who wants war and death

Because she wants to restore the empire and want revenge on her father. I don't see anything wrong with starting a coup when it's already been shown that their father is, cruel, superstitious, and incompetent as well being a potential murder who had both his father, brother and wife killed.

 

[PleaseFuckMeLikeAToy]

Except she didn't cause it though and she didn't burn it down.

You don't have proof so your point is invalid. I have proof that she caused the burning of the kingdom so? I don't know where you get this she didn't caused the kingdom to burn down what part? huh?

Do you want me to say the people did it and not her? the very question is she's still the one caused it so even she didn't the one who did it she still caused the kingdom to burn. I mean just play the game to see it instead of imagining things.

Again she didn't start the war, she didn't burn it down and the whole point of starting it on the wedding night is that it's the only time Priscilla could posion the king and take advantage of the sitation in the west.

You just recycled your comment here lol chill out don't get stressed. I know it's stressful if you don't have solid proof in the game and all you say is from your thought. watch your spelling too

Bro I can't take you seriously if you just insist on having a bad faith illogical hate boner against the character for no reason.

What is this even mean LOLOLOL It's in the game my guy. The game literally shows you of how awful Cassandra is lolololololol

Her uncle doesn't even die unless you kill Cass.

There was no manipulation for priscilla. Her uncle cath and Priscilla were all in compete agreement and had the same Idea and I don't really get why you're

If you kill Prescilla, The uncle will next to die too.

You're cherry picking and making a lot of mental gymnastics to jusify vilifying a character you dislike.
insisting that she tricked priscilla.

Because it's in the game?? Are you even playing the game lil buddy?

Because she wants to restore the empire and want revenge on her father. I don't see anything wrong with starting a coup when it's already been shown that their father is, cruel, superstitious, and incompetent as well being a potential murder who had both his father, brother and wife killed.

Restore empire restore empire restore empire. You can't even explain restore empire via killing innocent people? burning a kingdom sure.

The other guy is right @thefattestcat you really love to circling on a argument and this is probably my last response because it's look like you're stressed out and your spelling is out of nowhere I bet your hands is shaking while replying on my comment so chill out man and I don't want to repeat my argument with no answers like you're doing to me. Probably fill on the blanks on the points I said and answer it? Instead of repeating your question that I've already told to you perhaps?



Why don't you listen to a music first like this one

View attachment Belinda Carlisle - Circle in the Sand (Lyrics)_3.mp4

 

[storm1051787]

You don't have proof so your point is invalid.

The irony of this is that you don't have any proof she started either, just like you dont have any proof that she's ok with her uncle dying or that she tricked Priscilla. You just keep accusing her of stuff and going


"Cass is crazy so she definitely did it"


Literally all that happened is that fighting broke out and there ended up being a fire. No evidence of who started the fire or if the fire was intentional or not.

You just recycled your comment here lol chill out don't get stressed. I know it's stressful if you don't have solid proof in the game and all you say is from your thought. watch your spelling too

Of course I'm going to keep cycling my arguments if you keep making the same baseless claims. You want me to stop recyling them, bring in new evidence. Right now you don't actually have any evidence. You just keep making claims and expect me to accept them.

Because it's in the game?? Are you even playing the game lil buddy?

No it's not. There is literally nothing in game saying she tricked Priscilla and you are arguing that she tricked Priscilla based on a completely different interaction she had with a different character. She doesn't need to trick Priscilla, Priscilla hates the king for the same reason Cass does. For whatever reason you can't fathom them being coconspirators.

Restore empire restore empire restore empire. You can't even explain restore empire via killing innocent people? burning a kingdom sure.

What are you even talking about. She doesn't go around killing innocent people or burning down the kingdom. Also are you aware that you keep getting the castle and the entire kingdom mixed up for whatever reason?

Do you want me to say the people did it and not her? the very question is she's still the one caused it so even she didn't the one who did it she still caused the kingdom to burn

This makes no sense at all. If the people did it of course she didn't cause it. That's like saying if you kill someone in a car accident while you were driving my car then It's my fault for letting you use my car

What is this even mean LOLOLOL

Bad faith, it means you aren't actually interested in finding opposing evidence or trying to change your view point because you already had an opinion made and and are completely bias in regards to any conversation. Irrational hate boner means exactly what it sounds like. You have an illogical reason for disliking the character and are forming your entire argument based on that dislike instead of character actions and evidence

 

[MaxRichard]

I think you both should chill and realize what great writing this game has that it has caused players to have such diverging views on a character while also giving you the opportunity to literally kill or join said character in her scheming.

 

[storm1051787]

I think you both should chill and realize what great writing this game has that it has caused players to have such diverging views on a character while also giving you the opportunity to literally kill or join said character in her scheming.

Nah I don't care about whether or not he likes Cass or thinks siding with her is a good idea. I just don't like when people are so blatantly arguing in bad faith.

 

[Youtiy]

I think you both should chill and realize what great writing this game has that it has caused players to have such diverging views on a character while also giving you the opportunity to literally kill or join said character in her scheming.

Usually I'd agree but this doesn't really feel like that, more one party refusing to accept evidence whilst not giving any of there own.

 

[Youtiy]

Nah I don't care about whether or not he likes Cass or thinks siding with her is a good idea. I just don't like when people are so blatantly arguing in bad faith.

Whilst I didn't intend to respond to you any further I just found this one particular statement really funny.

I don't see anything wrong with starting a coup

The fact that you can say that whilst fully meaning it is insane to me, do you not understand just how many innocents died because of her Coup? People who had nothing to do with it and were just doing their jobs? To say you don't see anything wrong with it is truly something.

 

[Youtiy]

Anyway, regardless of anything else the Coup isn't really necessary. At least not if the MC is the Crown Prince, by most systems with a monarch as far as I understand he would automatically become the Regent until his father is restored to such a state where he can rule again. So unless their government is different then the norm in that area for some reason it was all unnecessary anyway.

 

[storm1051787]

The fact that you can say that whilst fully meaning it is insane to me, do you not understand just how many innocents died because of her Coup?

In the one you side with her, literally only two guards, no innocent people died. No I don't see an issue with starting a coup if you actively think the person in charge is doing more harm than good. Coups aren't always bloody

Anyway, regardless of anything else the Coup isn't really necessary. At least not if the MC is the Crown Prince.

It's necessary because it would take literally years for the MC to come into power normally while their father will continue to hurt the kingdom.

 

[storm1051787]

Usually I'd agree but this doesn't really feel like that, more one party refusing to accept evidence whilst not giving any of there own.

They literally didn't provide any evidence and continued to baseless claims like Cass tricked Priscilla or that Cass planned to burn the whole kingdom down. Neither of which ever happens unless the player allows it too

 

[Youtiy]

In the one you side with her, literally only two guards, no innocent people died. No I don't see an issue with starting a coup if you actively think the person in charge is doing more harm than good. Coups aren't always bloody

It's necessary because it would take literally years for the MC to come into power normally while their father will continue to hurt the kingdom.

That's not right at all, your forgetting that Pricilla or whatever her name is was going to poison the king regardless. That wasn't Cass's plot it was just something that worked in her favor, meaning the king would be out of commission with or without the Coup.

Oh and to do with the evidence, pretty sure they sent numerous screenshots and direct quotes from the game but whatever, believe what you want. I'm already done trying to convince you, at this stage I'm just finding this funny.

 

[storm1051787]

your forgetting that Pricilla or whatever her name is was going to poison the king regardless.

Which is exactly my point. They were arguing that Cass tricked Priscilla into poisoning to take control then threw her away when she wasn't needed. There is literally no evidence of this. From what we're provided in came Cass's mother side wanted to start the coup and poison the king anyway since they believe he killed Cass's mother. Their argument is literally that Cass admitted to lying to a different character, so everything that comes out of the character's mouth must be a lie and she's manipulating everyone all the time.

Oh and to do with the evidence, pretty sure they sent numerous screenshots and direct quotes

The screenshot they provided is Elin accusing Cass of wanting to sow chaos. Again no evidence that Cass herself started the fire, and it's just speculation made by another character..


And another quote saying that cass killed some random guy is evidence that Cass tricked priscilla, which is completely unrelated.

After that their only other screenshot is a dream vision which are all supposed to be vague and could even be argued that Cass would EVENTUALLY lose her mind rather than being insane from the start like he's arguing. So he's didn't provide any evidence. He's just shitting on a character he dislikes. I've got no problem with it, but even in your own comment you pointed out the issues with his argument. Screen shots and quotes are completely useless when taken out of context. None of them are evidence.


Also one of his quotes is literally just the mc talking to a vampire. Cass hasn't even met that character so I don't even know why that one was included

 

[Youtiy]

Which is exactly my point. They were arguing that Cass tricked Priscilla into poisoning to take control then threw her away when she wasn't needed. There is literally no evidence of this. From what we're provided in came Cass's mother side wanted to start the coup and poison the king anyway since they believe he killed Cass's mother. Their argument is literally that Cass admitted to lying to a different character, so everything that comes out of the character's mouth must be a lie and she's manipulating everyone all the time.



The screenshot they provided is Elin accusing Cass of wanting to sow chaos. Again no evidence that Cass herself started the fire, and it's just speculation made by another character..


And another quote saying that cass killed some random guy is evidence that Cass tricked priscilla, which is completely unrelated.

After that their only other screenshot is a dream vision which are all supposed to be vague and could even be argued that Cass would EVENTUALLY lose her mind rather than being insane from the start like he's arguing. So he's didn't provide any evidence. He's just shitting on a character he dislikes. I've got no problem with it, but even in your own comment you pointed out the issues with his argument. Screen shots and quotes are completely useless when taken out of context. None of them are evidence.


Also one of his quotes is literally just the mc talking to a vampire. Cass hasn't even met that character so I don't even know why that one was included

Aight, one last message from me on the matter. I'm not going to say anything on what they said or what you said instead I'll simply lay down facts from what I've encountered in game.

Cass did not trick Priscilla at all, she was simply aware of her intent to poison the king. Priscilla's side was also from what I understand unaware of her intentions, it was something she decided to do for herself, they never intended to start a Coup or cause any form of damage to the Empire. She also didn't intend to start a Coup or to damage the Empire, she just wanted to get rid of the person she believed killed her sister. Let's not forget that they weren't in a position to do anything to the Empire at the time since they themselves were on the verge of a Rebellion/Civil War.

Onto the idea of Cass setting fire to the capital, one of two things happened here. Either one she gave the order or two she's incompetent and can't control her own men, there's no room to argue this or to try to weasel out of it at least not with what we currently have. Any other cause for it is either incredibly unlikely or we have no evidence to support.

For the final point being Cass's mental state. She is utterly insane, this isn't up for debate she simply is, the game acknowledges that she is.

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More evidence for her lack of sanity or rather mental instability is just how prone to violence she is, let's not forget that she slashed the MC's face when they were kids over an argument that really hadn't escalated to that point yet. She's also fully willing to kill anyone who get's in her path and has absolutely no qualms with murdering innocents if she needs to.

Anyway, this is my final message on the matter, if you don't agree at this point your clearly not going to no matter what anyone say's or gives you as evidence. Any further debate on the matter is pointless.

 

[storm1051787]

Cass did not trick Priscilla at all, she was simply aware of her intent to poison the king.

We agree on this, the other poster was arguing the opposite.

hey never intended to start a Coup or cause any form of damage to the Empire.

This part, not only do I not agree with but is factually wrong as Cass admits to working with her uncle to start a coup. The only thing you can really argue is how much involvement Priscilla had

Onto the idea of Cass setting fire to the capital, one of two things happened here. Either one she gave the order or two she's incompetent and can't control her own men, there's no room to argue this or to try to weasel out of it at least not with what we currently have. Any other cause for it is either incredibly unlikely or we have no evidence to support.

You're forgetting a third possible answer and that a bunch of fighting started and a fire broke out. My point is there is no evidence for who or why the fire was started. Their arguing was just that Cass intentionally started a fire just because she's crazy.


So already twice now you've agreed with me on the other poster's evidence being flawed despite you defending their "evidence" which was basically just a bunch of out of context unrelated quotes.(kind of makes me suspect you only skimmed through the convo)

For the final point being Cass's mental state. She is utterly insane, this isn't up for debate she simply is, the game acknowledges that she is.

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The problem is that the white path involves about a month or two of court politics and Cass battling dissenters and includes several events that don't happen on the green or red path. Cass being broken after a month long siege while is not evidence she's been like that the whole game.


Frankly I don't really care if you actually think Cass is crazy or not. The biggest issue I had with the other poster is their isnstance that Cass intentionally started the fire and tricked Priscilla. You already agreed withtat the first claim lacks evidence and that the second claim is wrong. I don't actually care whether or not you like Cass or think the coup was morally right or wrong. I think you're entitled to that opinion even if I disagree with it.

let's not forget that she slashed the MC's face when they were kids over an argument

If we're going with this argument than the MC is crazy too since he stabbed out her eye. Honestly their fighting just seemed like normal sibling fighting and the mistake is that they shouldn't have been given a knife. Children are naturally irrational and over emotional, I've seen kids get into physical fights over incredibly dumb stuff. Cass at least was remorseful about the whole thing. Both Cass slashing the mc and the Mc stabbing Cass were accidents.

She's also fully willing to kill anyone who get's in her path and has absolutely no qualms with murdering innocents if she needs to

Again I don't really see how this is evidence of madness. You can debate the ethic and morality sure, I don't really care. But not everyone who is cruel is insane. The ends justify the means for some people, it's not the same as killing people for fun.

 

[Marvoch]

It seems to me that you've gotten lost in a rabbit hole. Is the coup necessary?

1. There have been many legitimate heirs to the throne throughout history who have dethroned their fathers (even committing patricide), so this is not an unprecedented course of action.
2. Cass had been preparing this plan for a long time, so it wasn’t a last-minute decision. Cass is a mix of patriotism, vengeful spirit and ambition, and the best way she found to reconcile these drives was to get rid of her father (without killing him for political reasons), take control of the kingdom, and use her brother as a stabilizing factor—united by brotherly bonds and the torment their father inflicted upon them. And yes, the poisoning happened under Cass’s orders, since I noticed some confusion on the matter. Things had been set in motion a long time ago.
3. Some say he should have waited years to take the throne, others say he should have waited only a little while; we have no way of knowing either way. There are chronically ill people who survive for years, while others die within months. You can’t make plans based on that. So we shouldn't consider it. The kingdom was already dying at present.
4. For those who wanted the MC to take the reins: the protagonist is neither a strategist, nor a statesman, nor a master spy, nor someone driven by strong political ambition and huge projects. You have to accept him for who he is. He is not devoid of desires, but he is a fish out of water due to being raised away from court. The fact that he has to rely on others is both a necessity and a consequence of that. He doesn’t have a powerful faction of his own making and is therefore a ship adrift in a stormy sea.

 

[zandalari]

Mofos thinking that an exiled heir who spent his time drinking and whoring at random taverns is Valkorion reborn

"Lemme just take over the kingdom with all the several people that I know at the court and beat the spymaster's plan through an afternoon of action"

 

[bfc233]

I'm honestly more intrigued by the things we learned about the mirror this round.

Reflections that can be twisted, twins that are reflections that stay the same but eventually diverge, blessings of great power at yet unfathomable costs...

Blood inheritance has gotten more interesting with the mention of another line.

I am not sure I like that LM is still building mystery, as it speaks of a very long story still ahead of us, but I like the way he's doing it. Layering on facts we know since early on is a good technique.

 

[bfc233]

It seems to me that you've gotten lost in a rabbit hole. Is the coup necessary?

1. There have been many legitimate heirs to the throne throughout history who have dethroned their fathers (even committing patricide), so this is not an unprecedented course of action.
2. Cass had been preparing this plan for a long time, so it wasn’t a last-minute decision. Cass is a mix of patriotism, vengeful spirit and ambition, and the best way she found to reconcile these drives was to get rid of her father (without killing him for political reasons), take control of the kingdom, and use her brother as a stabilizing factor—united by brotherly bonds and the torment their father inflicted upon them. And yes, the poisoning happened under Cass’s orders, since I noticed some confusion on the matter. Things had been set in motion a long time ago.
3. Some say he should have waited years to take the throne, others say he should have waited only a little while; we have no way of knowing either way. There are chronically ill people who survive for years, while others die within months. You can’t make plans based on that. So we shouldn't consider it. The kingdom was already dying at present.
4. For those who wanted the MC to take the reins: the protagonist is neither a strategist, nor a statesman, nor a master spy, nor someone driven by strong political ambition and huge projects. You have to accept him for who he is. He is not devoid of desires, but he is a fish out of water due to being raised away from court. The fact that he has to rely on others is both a necessity and a consequence of that. He doesn’t have a powerful faction of his own making and is therefore a ship adrift in a stormy sea.

In regards to monarchy, the problem you're missing here is the, ironically, quite common idea of entering a temporary diarchy. Indeed it's quite common for a king to give his heir an important court position to learn the fundamentals of ruling, through which they accumulate both contacts, skills and influence that often ends up making them a diarch in all but name by the time inheritance becomes a serious consideration. The quickly declining health of the king would have put MC in a position of being the de facto ruler soon enough, especially considering the difference in the speed with which he and his father are aging.

Mofos thinking that an exiled heir who spent his time drinking and whoring at random taverns is Valkorion reborn

"Lemme just take over the kingdom with all the several people that I know at the court and beat the spymaster's plan through an afternoon of action"

You laugh, but MC had the two things he needed to make a move in that situation: information and contacts. Everything else boils down to taking the initiative to become a player that needs to be reacted to instead of reacting, which you can only do if you know what lies ahead. That's how you turn a tactics game around.

Jesus Christ, this was some unintentional double post nonsense.

 

[Gicoo]

Mediating again, there are two stances:

1. The coup makes sense from Cass point of view, as she had planning it along and can't completely depend on MC, regardless if he is on board with it or not.
2. The coup doesn't make sense from MC point of view, since he just came back.

The problem is what was mentioned initially, the decision to make MC a fish out of water without knowlegde.

About him not acting like a sovereign, again he just returned from 10 years in exiles, in those 10 years hes basically a civilian with money. If suddenly after the coup he start acting like a King would then it would be completely out of character. I agree that that needs to happen, just not right now, he needs to face and overcome more challenges, then either grow to be a Emperor that rules with and iron fist or a benevolent King that bring peace to both elves and humans.

The crux is that Lazy Monkey choose to make him that way and many (including me) can't immerse themselves in the MC because it forces him to be reactive and depending on his love interests agencies, since he is a clean slate.