VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.2] [Eva Kiss]

[dontcarewhateverno]

I get your point, but I gotta say, people who seriously read sci-fi novels like the type Ian is trying to write would be nerdy enough to distinguish between the Star Wars movie franchise tropes (chosen one with holy sword Imeanlightsaber and magic powers ImeantheForce) and those in sci-fi novels.

And I get that point, but these hints are supposed to be aimed at the player, not at the people in those geekdom communities. And a writer doesn't need to be steeped into that sort of ultra-tedious sci-fi fandom to write a great novel categorized by the general public under the genre.

As an aside, the "like Ian is trying to write" is also an assumption, though. He's chosen a general path to base his novel in, with the purpose of writing a good novel in that general area. It was never mentioned that his purpose was to please an insular community of genre zealots, who may not necessarily value good writing over their fandom desires and rigid category specifics.

 

[camube]

I think the "meta" aspect of Ian's book is that if the player only has average knowledge (of tropes), Ian's book has higher likelihood of being average as well (being not great).

Which is great for immersion (on completed game at least) because our average knowledge led Ian to average result. Without replay or walkthrough, Ian likely isn't great at writing if we ourselves aren't above average (or lucky) on choosing the tropes.

Lol, that's a pretty good game-design, in terms of replayability at least.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

I think the "meta" aspect of Ian's book is that if the player only has average knowledge (of tropes), Ian's book has higher likelihood of being average as well (being not great).

Which is great for immersion (on completed game at least) because our average knowledge led Ian to average result. Without replay or walkthrough, Ian likely isn't great at writing if we ourselves aren't above average (or lucky) on choosing the tropes.

Lol, that's a pretty good game-design, in terms of replayability at least.

I could see that in a meta 4-D chess sort of way: Make the puzzle unfair to the average user with "hints" that are purely subjective, as my end goal is to make them replay it.

Of course, I think that's doubtful and still poor game design in the end. But touche.

 

[zonk4411]

Been down several paths, but still struggling to get Holly on the most "bad" path -- that is, most sexually active, most loosened up, ditching the glasses if possible, etc. etc.

Spoiler: Hiding stuff looking at variables

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Any ideas on the best path for that?

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

I don't think it's a bad hint, Star Wars isn't really an inspiration for sci-fi books the way say LOTR has been for fantasy. Some extremely popular sci-fi books like Dune have a chosen one feel. It's not something as common in sci-fi as it is in fantasy books and it's worked well in sci fi so didn't see it as a bad choice.

Things you'd only know if you were deeply rooted in what an insular community of people consider a specific "genre". So was this game made just for those people?

There are plenty of well-read people out there who don't get so steeped into any one genre to really know the entire field.

Read a variety of uncategorizable authors or authors outside of those base categories, from Huxley, to Sartre, to Burroughs, to Bataille and a few stray fanboy-respected genre authors like Phillip K Dick? Well then, you're fucked. Sorry. Your 15 books read from Charles Bukowski are useless.
I'd mention Vonnegut alongside Dick, but I assume people might jump in and say "THAT'S NOT SCI-FI!"

Same goes for people who aren't well-read though and just know genres in layman terms from general pop-culture.

I'm talking in circles here, basically, as the end point is that a hint that only subjectively hits a small-ish slice of people from one strict corner of the reading world is not a good hint for this sort of wide-spread fetish game, where the only thing we all have in common is playing lewd videogames and jacking off.

It's also not a good representation of any sort of writing skill.

Some of the hints in their current state are fine. Others... not so much.

 

[GrigoriRasputin]

I will say that I was under the impression an excellent novel would be striking a balance between following troops and going off the beaten path. So the trope option would give + points and the random options would give - points, with the goal being to end up somewhere in the middle.

I was also hoping that Wits would contribute to the book. Even with the wrong choices, it'd be nice if someone who prioritized Wits could still salvage the book. After all, a talented mind can make any set of tropes interesting in my opinion.

As it is now, pursuing Wits feels like a waste of time other than for "roleplaying" reasons.

 

[msleomac]

As you know, Zoey Raven worked on the walkthrough for the first 2 updates but as of now, I'm taking over this guide with his kind blessing. Thank you to Zoey, for his help and guidance - I won't let you down. Here's the updated walkthrough. If you have any questions or suggestions, you can either ping me in the thread or send me a direct message.
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Guide updated to V0.9 Remastered (Beta)

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will you be updating the WT?

 

[camube]

As you know, Zoey Raven worked on the walkthrough for the first 2 updates but as of now, I'm taking over this guide with his kind blessing. Thank you to Zoey, for his help and guidance - I won't let you down. Here's the updated walkthrough. If you have any questions or suggestions, you can either ping me in the thread or send me a direct message.
You can also join

You must be registered to see the links

official discord community or

You must be registered to see the links

.

Guide updated to V0.9 Remastered (Beta)

If you want to support this guide, you can:

You must be registered to see the links

If you want to express your gratitude to Zoey Raven or check out his other content, you can do it here:

You must be registered to see the links

I take it Patreon is not available where you're at?

 

[camube]

I could see that in a meta 4-D chess sort of way: Make the puzzle unfair to the average user with "hints" that are purely subjective, as my end goal is to make them replay it.

Of course, I think that's doubtful and still poor game design in the end. But touche.

it gives better experience to me actually. It doesn't give you the best ending right at first playthrough.

Many games do that right? at least in the past. You have to replay it to get the best ending because the requirement to get best ending is too opaque without walkthrough, and most players wouldn't satisfy that requirement.

Not sure if that's deliberate or not but, not getting the best ending on Ian's book career is more immersive to me.
If Ian is that good, he would have won it instead of Holly.

He would've wrote it before Holly wrote hers.
He hasn't even wrote the fckn book.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

it gives better experience to me actually. It doesn't give you the best ending right at first playthrough.

Many games do that right? at least in the past. You have to replay it to get the best ending because the requirement to get best ending is too opaque without walkthrough, and most players wouldn't satisfy that requirement.

Not sure if that's deliberate or not but, not getting the best ending on Ian's book career is more immersive to me.
If Ian is that good, he would have won it instead of Holly.

He would've wrote it before Holly wrote hers.
He hasn't even wrote the fckn book.

I guess your enjoyment of having to do it again depends on your excitement to do another complete play-through. Where-as some of us prefer to save at specific major story branches we care about and replay from there. It's great that it adds to your immersion, but it doesn't seem like a "works as designed" situation that was intentional and I'm not sure if I'd call it good game design if it were.

Not saying there shouldn't be a challenge though in any puzzle or riddle added to a game. Just that those challenges that require a full additional playthrough, inherent in any VN sort of story, should rule logic and/or skill over chance or subjective experience. You don't even need a puzzle or riddle in a vn. Most don't have one, at least not one that spans 50%+ of the game. But if it's there, it should be well-crafted and balanced.

I'm separating that from standard choice-based decisions that affect a story which aren't in puzzle form. Those can be a lot more loose, of course, since they're completely based on story telling. (With the exception of illogical storytelling based on bad writing, which happens more often than not in AVNs as the majority tend to be written by amateurs with poor writing skill and little understanding of story structure).

 

[lucadiadis]

Just noticed, Emma's "surprise" face looks like she is having a stroke

View attachment 2267789

She has been designed based on the frames of porn actress Abella Danger, so EK took a lot of facial expressions from her videos.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

She has been designed based on the frames of porn actress Abella Danger, so EK took a lot of facial expressions from her videos.

Yup. She probably edited the cock out of her face on that one.

 

[Tulrek]

Been down several paths, but still struggling to get Holly on the most "bad" path -- that is, most sexually active, most loosened up, ditching the glasses if possible, etc. etc.

Spoiler: Hiding stuff looking at variables

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Any ideas on the best path for that?

My advices are:
Taking the choices that make her want to become like Lena.
Having Lena on the max Sexy/sluty path of course.
When they are with Ivy, siding with Ivy and don't protect Holly.
Make Lena thinking about Holly while masturbating.
When they are all three to gether may Lena or Ivy kiss her.
The second time when they are at Ivy's place, go all on Holly (Theesome possible if Lena has 6 and above in sexy stat and think about Holly before.).

Spoiler: Photo

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I think that from this point Ian should be a bit surprised to see the behaviour changes in Holly.

 

[camube]

I guess your enjoyment of having to do it again depends on your excitement to do another complete play-through. Where-as some of us prefer to save at specific major story branches we care about and replay from there. It's great that it adds to your immersion, but it doesn't seem like a "works as designed" situation that was intentional and I'm not sure if I'd call it good game design if it were.

Not saying there shouldn't be a challenge though in any puzzle or riddle added to a game. Just that those challenges that require a full additional playthrough, inherent in any VN sort of story, should rule logic and/or skill over chance or subjective experience. You don't even need a puzzle or riddle in a vn. Most don't have one, at least not one that spans 50%+ of the game. But if it's there, it should be well-crafted and balanced.

I'm separating that from standard choice-based decisions that affect a story which aren't in puzzle form. Those can be a lot more loose, of course, since they're completely based on story telling. (With the exception of illogical storytelling based on bad writing, which happens more often than not in AVNs as the majority tend to be written by amateurs with poor writing skill and little understanding of story structure).

i actually agree with you in essence. There is no fundamental rule stating that Visual Novels have to have 2 playthrough or more to get the best ending. But it is a thing in Japanese VNs and it still is.

I don't think Eva aims for that either, but I do think the inadvertent result that average players would get average score on Ian's book and not having the best book ending is actually more immersive, in a way.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I will say that I was under the impression an excellent novel would be striking a balance between following troops and going off the beaten path. So the trope option would give + points and the random options would give - points, with the goal being to end up somewhere in the middle.

I was also hoping that Wits would contribute to the book. Even with the wrong choices, it'd be nice if someone who prioritized Wits could still salvage the book. After all, a talented mind can make any set of tropes interesting in my opinion.

As it is now, pursuing Wits feels like a waste of time other than for "roleplaying" reasons.

Unfortunately it's the same for the song writing - the "correct" choices are obvious, but end up sounding more like a dime-a-dozen sheeranesque/chemical romance song vs more abstract/profound choices - then you get hit with the SHOULD I KEEP IT THIS WAY?

The first time I played, I was really hoping the novel would have deep impact on the overall story - it would make sense if it guided the overarching story, aka if your novel is about romantic love but ends in defeat, at the end Ian doesnt get the girl. Then it'd be more of a Leap of Faith style choice-making, i.e. "kinetic but with some choice" where it's not difficult for the player to chose a route; the game asks them - what do they really want?

 

[ffive]

As it is now, pursuing Wits feels like a waste of time other than for "roleplaying" reasons.

Intelligence gates a number of dialogue options which increase other attributes (typically charisma) or relationship scores, so it's hardly a waste.

 

[Chuck_Bass]

She has been designed based on the frames of porn actress Abella Danger, so EK took a lot of facial expressions from her videos.

Cool, I checked her out and I think you are absolutely right about that.
Any other characters based on real life people?

 

[jollyjoker27]

Any other characters based on real life people?

Cindy seems a crossover of Nancy Ace and Lily Rader

 

[Deleted member 3629496]

Cool, I checked her out and I think you are absolutely right about that.
Any other characters based on real life people?

Cherry = Scarlit Scandal (?)

 

[soprano31]

Cherry = Scarlit Scandal (?)

guessed right