VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ungawa]

If people are lusting over a side character imo that’s just misguided writing. Take Sophia as an example. She is imo taking more away from main characters story lines then enhancing. If she wasn’t a hot blonde female, she would be just be the loyal assistant with brains. Replace her with a male model, would dicks really be this hard for the Sophia character?

....

I forget her name, but the pregnant Carnation is an example of a good side character. Enhances the story, doesn’t take away from Main characters, and provides some needed side kinks. Have yet to see her introduced into the waifu wars like Sofia and Victoria. Misguided writing imo anyways.

Time out...

If people are lusting over a side character, it's because they resonate with how they're written. People will find parallels and work on understanding the characters no matter the medium. Take for example Robin and Nami from One Piece. Most of the dialogue goes to Nami as the Navigator in One Piece while Robin still has her fans for the quiet bookworm she really is. And I can go on but overall, a story NEEDS secondary characters to function.

For example, Lucy Long as a secondary acts as an expy (exported character) for Rosalind and you can draw parallels due to their successes and failures in the game. Very successful marriage versus one decimated by a crappy husband, successful job versus house mom, or even how one can read the room and fail while the other reads the room and succeeds.

You try out an idea on a secondary character before you implement it with one of the mains. And with the secondary characters in the cathouse, you make the place feel far more alive as each one has different strengths and weaknesses as you move the game forward.

Nicolette? She's a smaller Veronica in a sense. Samson thinks so little of her as a girl he can get with and buy over what he wants to do when Veronica gets pulled down. What you see in the sauna is what you'll get if Veronica goes that route.

Of course, people are seeing parallels with Sophia and Felicia so I won't comment on that. Still, there's plenty of other girls in the place who give it far more vibrance and allow you to see more of the characters in depth and personality as everyone talks.

I don't see it as misguided writing, I see it as the author having an understanding that this COULD be a possible future for another character if they were in the same shoes and had to walk this mile in them.

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

View attachment 4534165

Dev Diary 89

Heya folks, TD here. Currently, Ch4Up6 sits at a total of 243 static images, 18 animations, and 6,880 words. That comes out to 207 images, 6 animations, and 6,178 words since our last diary three weeks ago.

It’s been a little stop and go this week as I’ve gummed up production by wrestling with two important scenes and giving them the impact they require, but overall things have been progressing pretty nicely. Although important, the **pre-pre** exhibition scenes (meaning everything before Edwin arrives at the club for the **pre**-exhibition free roam) shouldn’t eat up too much dev time. So far we’ve completed the two discreet openings that follow the cliffhanger from the last update and Kathleen checking in, plus a surprise house call from a certain beloved character and a nice exchange for Veronica enjoyers. Next up are the remaining two (Victoria focused) scenes that I’m sure people are dying for with how that got left off.

Fret not, things aren’t going to be left hanging and unresolved there. There’s something about writing Vicky, Ian, and Edwin together that makes me happy… so I’ve been super excited to continue that thread.

After that, is the meat and potatoes: the pre-exhibition running about, and the big show itself. That will be quite the undertaking, with unique challenges, but that is the fun thing about this job. I’ll speak on that side of things in a later diary.

I’ll keep this short, so that’s that. As always, thank you for your support. It means the world to us.

Do the updates come out every Sunday?

 

[dolfe67]

there are reasons we fight for more Sophia content and the possibility of an ending with Sophia and Edwin walking around the city with a mini-Sophia inbetween them.

WE?...

 

[TD1900]

WE?...

I was going to make a "dozens of us" joke, but then I remembered:

Spoiler: Side Character Poll

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...she's even beating out the virginless Mary. I'm not surprised she's popular, but I've been surprised just how popular. Guess there's some mystique / a little-goes-a-long-way there or something.

 

[Turret]

WE?...

We are everywhere (Unfortunately the translation does not carry over the humour very well)

 

[ename144]

Hmm, I think that if Hana is winning, that's not really because anyone is stealing steam from the other girls, but because three of them are participants in porn contest, two of them are married and Mina is Ian's girlfriend, which can make some people abstain. Hana in contrast is unattached and the only dick she ever takes is Edwin's, which for some people can be important.

This is no doubt a big part of it, but Hana is also by far the LI with the most development. She gets significant screen time in nearly every episode, is able to coexist seamlessly with both sides of the MC's life, and her personal arc is tightly tied to the MC's own journey through the Club. She was the first to make a formal claim on the MC (if we play her path, of course), and she even has Victoria's enthusiastic approval!

Hana is awesome no question, but she's also had the inside track this whole time. It's no surprise she has a commanding lead.

Hmm i'm trying to picture it, but i think that Sophia's serving as cum dump and sushi table for old wrinkly farts would still get in the way of her having much impact on Hana's popularity. To say nothing about very different personalities, meaning that by your own statement that trait overleap is important factor in that attention stealing business, she wouldn't have much pull from Hana..?

I suspect most people don't realize that IS Sophia.

Do the updates come out every Sunday?

No. They usually come out on Sunday, but once every 2-3 weeks. We get preview images or transition screen art in the off weeks.

 

[Beduin123]

Sophia could also, gods forbid, enjoy sex even if she's highly intelligent. An outrageous concept, i know.

I always thought enjoying sex and being pimped out to dirty old men for being used and abused are different things.
Well, you may argue that Sophia enjoys exactly THAT kind of sex. It is possible, but again, that makes her quite an unusual woman as I commented earlier.

PS Also, the Dev has mentioned Sophia in the context of people selling themselves. So, I don't think that all that she does is at her own will.

 

[pinuz1]

If people are lusting over a side character imo that’s just misguided writing. Take Sophia as an example. She is imo taking more away from main characters story lines then enhancing. If she wasn’t a hot blonde female, she would be just be the loyal assistant with brains. Replace her with a male model, would dicks really be this hard for the Sophia character?

Since she is a hot villainess, she is taking steam from the sails of Kathleen’s role as main female antagonist.

The skinny hot blonde is now also taking steam from Mina’s role as the hot skinny blonde.

The awkward face personality yet has some brains. Again that’s taking steam out of Felicia’s sails.

That’s oomph you’re taking out of 3 Main characters story lines that could hit just a little bit harder without the hot blonde assistant.

The popularities reflect this with Hana running away with it.

Again Victoria, a little more tricky since she is so intertwined into protagonists story. Still, I consider a side character. Has a much better hitting mother offspring storyline than Rose will ever have. Victoria takes hella steam away from Rose who is a main chracter.

Andrea is just a highly condensed more extreme version of Minas character. Bubbly girl who likes sex. Again, taking oomph away from a main character.

I forget her name, but the pregnant Carnation is an example of a good side character. Enhances the story, doesn’t take away from Main characters, and provides some needed side kinks. Have yet to see her introduced into the waifu wars like Sofia and Victoria. Misguided writing imo anyways.

IMO that's just horny people being horny people and wanting to pork anything they see that appears remotely appealing.

Like i said, the only way you can avoid it is not to have other female characters, something you kind of acknowledge yourself with wanting to replace Sophia with a guy.


This may come as a shock, but i can enjoy more than one character with shared traits.

I don't see it as taking steam out of anyone's sails, but more than one character i get to enjoy, if i happen to be into their shared traits.


Now you're getting into what i'd call nonsense and perhaps even failing to understand the story.

Victoria doesn't take away any steam from Rose. Quite the opposite, her presence (and her backstory) is large part of how Rose comes across in the story. If anything, Victoria strengthens Rose's presence and role, through their shared analogies. Do you think Edwin doing porn with Rose on stage and roleplaying into mommy fetish there would hit anywhere as hard, if Victoria and her porn flicks weren't part the game?

That one comment about Victoria taking away from Rose shows that guy has 0 understanding of the story, Rose character shines harder thanks to Victoria.

The other comments are pretty dumb too, so each character should be their own stereotype? no females can share the same 2 traits because then they are substracting from each other? When that happens you end up with those games where each girl only follows 1 trope: "The Shy girl" "The Smart girl" "The Mommy character" "The athletic girl" etc, etc, and the conversations between each other are insanely boring because the characters are 1 dimensional and bland, is that what you want?

 

[Ottoeight]

Honestly introducing new potential LIs is a smart idea.

No, it is NOT.

Anyway, if you think they did... well, I think you are misinterpreting: side fucks are side fucks only.

I have such a love hate relationship with this game, even though it has great story and cgi's its updated once a year, but then I have moved to a new computer and lost all my data and there is no reliable way to continue where I left off, and trying to find saves that work in this thread is an absolute pain.

Well, just replay it from scratch: next update is coming out... towards the end of this year, I guess.

Short of not having any other characters in the game at all the random simping is very much unavoidable. I mean, in the Being a DIK thread people have been thirsting for months after a girl who appears in two scenes as one of background actors, without any lines or anything, but she happens to look hot enough.

Bro, a lot of users are trolls and/or attention whores. They just want to stir the pot.

If people are lusting over a side character imo that’s just misguided writing.

Same as above.

Again Victoria, a little more tricky since she is so intertwined into protagonists story. Still, I consider a side character. Has a much better hitting mother offspring storyline than Rose will ever have. Victoria takes hella steam away from Rose who is a main chracter.

Andrea is just a highly condensed more extreme version of Minas character. Bubbly girl who likes sex. Again, taking oomph away from a main character.

I forget her name, but the pregnant Carnation is an example of a good side character. Enhances the story, doesn’t take away from Main characters, and provides some needed side kinks. Have yet to see her introduced into the waifu wars like Sofia and Victoria. Misguided writing imo anyways.

Good Heavens.

Victoria is NOT a side character.

Did you forget the title screen? this is a tale of "motherly devotion".

We seem to be off to a good start, though other than an interesting surge in animations right out of the gate we're still too early in the cycle to draw meaningful conclusions. I'm more intrigued by the flight plan for the update. Obviously good news for Veronica enjoyers is always welcome, but I'm guessing it's the mysterious visit that's be responsible for the animations. I'm not as enthusiastic about that, but it might still give us some insights into a relatively significant character so it's still likely to be worthwhile.

Bro, that hand is definitely Hana's (unless we have a new character incoming...).

I mean that’s kinda why I used the pregnant carnation as an example. Also Dalia is another good example of a great side girl. If that’s comes across as me wanting to get rid of side girls and enjoying their sex appeal… Not what I was going for.

She's a house girl. Carnations are Rosalind, Felicia and Veronica.

My point is Victorias and Edwin’s mother and son story is overshadowing Roses and her daughters quite a bit on the emotional level so far. I think Victoria’s has been hitting harder emotionally so far and Roses is kinda like, ok?, in comparison. Not saying it’s bad, just over shadowed.

Oh man.

If there were no Victoria, the Authors wouldn't have created Rosalind's character.

Hmm, I think that if Hana is winning, that's not really because anyone is stealing steam from the other girls, but because three of them are participants in porn contest, two of them are married and Mina is Ian's girlfriend, which can make some people abstain. Hana in contrast is unattached and the only dick she ever takes is Edwin's, which for some people can be important.

As I once wrote, I totally hate tattoos. I really hate them.

Nonetheless, Hana is my favourite female character. I think she's the most amazing character.

This is no doubt a big part of it, but Hana is also by far the LI with the most development. She gets significant screen time in nearly every episode, is able to coexist seamlessly with both sides of the MC's life, and her personal arc is tightly tied to the MC's own journey through the Club. She was the first to make a formal claim on the MC (if we play her path, of course), and she even has Victoria's enthusiastic approval!

Hana is awesome no question, but she's also had the inside track this whole time. It's no surprise she has a commanding lead.

There is a reason why she's the first LI with a girlfriend path: plot reasons.

No matter what people's tastes are: if you think about the plot, she's the most important LI.

I suspect most people don't realize that IS Sophia.

THIS

It's not a suspect. It's a fact.

That one comment about Victoria taking away from Rose shows that guy has 0 understanding of the story, Rose character shines harder thanks to Victoria.

 

[Nulldev]

My stupid little mountain hill mound to die on is that Rose stole Lucy's spot so she deserves lifelong servitude as the lowest of the housegirls after her crushing defeat, preferably with her stupid child.

 

[crunchycake]

Well... if you think the setting/cast of PA is run-of-the-mill... I would say you can't find a non-repetitive plot/character from the market, so I can't argue with that.

But

Edwin is the best bro with a crappy mom that makes him take it out on other women.

Mixing mc's name with the sidekick's is something I couldn't neglect lol

 

[ffive]

Mixing mc's name with the sidekick's is something I couldn't neglect lol

Some could make a point that statement wasn't really wrong when it comes to Edwin, too. He does [want to] take it out on other women thanks to questionable actions of this mom.

 

[ename144]

Bro, that hand is definitely Hana's (unless we have a new character incoming...).

Nah, Hana has tattoos on her left arm and doesn't wear a watch. Sophia has bare skin and does.

 

[Maccabbee]

Ok, ill toss out the waifu war angle bit I have been doing. Rose is there to fullfill all the incest elements without actually having incest. Its a psudeo incest porn scenario. If you catch your mom banging on video, you will be traumatized. 99.9% of the world, is not going to rewatch their mom getting banged to get over the trauma. They sure as heck aint going to mommy role play with the single mom they know that looks similar to their mom. My mom needs help financially so she doesnt have to resort to porn that I watched. Geez I should go work at the suspicious bar thats a whorehouse said no one ever but Edwins stupid ass.

The mommy character is Victoria projected onto Rose.

The dumb jock athletic character is Veronica that has no non athletic back up plan.

Mina is the ditzy young blonde who is really not.

Hana is the daddy issue goth girl who is reaalllyyy coool but reaallyy haattes her daaadd.

Sophia is the hot nerdy evil scientist.

Kathleen is the dominatrix who is actually evil.

Dalia is the head bitch who looks out for everyone.

Felecia is the gold digger that actually has a heart of gold.

Edwin is the best bro with a crappy mom that makes him take it out on other women.

Chuck is the awesome rich grandpa who is really an asshole.


Play into the above sterotypes for a bad play through and encourage to break out of stereotypes for a good playthrough for non antagonists. Mix and match for gray.

Dont bang single moms that remind you of your mom, friends girl friends, married women, bang multiple woman while trying to romance someone, or bang the bosses daughter etc. Fast money is not the way to go if its a crime. Flip all that for drama.

The entire game (that is great porn btw) is a sterotype with a BDSM humiliation twist. Even the mob element is straight up sterotype. Just replace cocaine with horny medicine and the crooked feds with crooked pharma.

Am I getting it?

You seem to have a superficial grasp of the tropes with no appreciation for the execution or subtleties of this specific narrative. Congrats on your neurodiversity diagnosis. Does it feel good to shit on things people like? Trolling is a bad habit.

 

[Ungawa]

Am I getting it?

*ahem*

No.

The issue here is that you're forgetting that stereotypes have to build onto the negative and positive aspects of it in order to feel fully fleshed out. Really bad stereotypes come off as one note and one trick and people will bounce off them if they're handled poorly.

That's a flat character arc. They stay the same no matter what happens in the story.

The characters here are very dynamic in what they do and have highs and lows along with struggles as they interact. So when you write a story, keeping them moving along with the main characters feels more that they have their own struggles going on out of the camera.

X and Y don't like each other. That's because Z was harmed. Fill in the blanks.

August and Chuck don't like each other. That's because Dalia was harmed. Now there's a story.

Hana and Kathleen don't like each other. That's because Harper was harmed. There's another one.

Then you go down the rabbit hole and find out *why* those characters got beef. That makes the story stronger and builds on the writing that came before.

 

[Hungover00]

There's a reason tropes are used, and good writers will take it beyond the basic trope and make it their own. I think this game has done that.

 

[Ungawa]

Tropes are nothing more than plot devices.

And there's

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you can go with.

You build those with different ways to do that plus make characters that interact in different ways and that's how stories are formed.

 

[Ottoeight]

Nah, Hana has tattoos on her left arm and doesn't wear a watch. Sophia has bare skin and does.

My bad.

Well, now I'm a bit disappointed.

 

[DangerTHC]

Hello,
can anyone please help me?

I am stuck in Veronica Scene in Hellweek.
I´ve tried to hide the camera file with a fix mentioned in this post but the camera frame is still visible?

is there any other way to fix this issue?

Thanks!

Unfortunately I have now the same problem in Victoria Scene.
As suggested I´ve tried again to change to OPGl but I still get crashes.

Does anyone have another Idea maybe? I´m sad

 

[Thor875]

I can't get the connection between Vicky and Chuck out of my head. Grace talks about an agreement with awkward chatter between the two.
She doesn't know what it's about and she doesn't care. Since we now know from Chuck that he likes to play games with people in order to break them or achieve his goal with them, it's something I can't get out of my head. He obviously started doing it with Vicky a long time ago.
I noticed during the second run that Vicky reacts unusually to Ian's father.

Spoiler: reaction

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It seems to me that her reaction is more of a personal one than just some knowledge about him.
There is a lot of information about Vicky that has been mentioned but left open, which will probably be connected later on (and we are supposed to think about it and start speculating in the meantime).
Did she have a bad experience with him, and if so, where and when?

We know that she started making porn in 2009. We generally assume that Edwin was about 12 years old at the time.
We know nothing about the six years between the death of his father and the start of making porn. We also have no time reference for Edwin's statement that she had several jobs at the same time. All we know is that in addition to her porn work, she worked in a bar at night.

Spoiler: sexy legal outfit

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Suppose she had started working for Ian's father's company after her husband's death (or 2-3 years later), she didn't know who he was yet. He demands that she wear the outfit and possibly more (for various reasons, secretaries sometimes have sex with their boss)?
(This also fits with the "handsy boss" when we asked about her work at the beginning.)
Here Chuck meets her outside of school. At Grace's, she says she met him a few times, at school and at... (work?)
The moment she finds out about Ian's father, she quits and needs a new source of income.
This would give Chuck knowledge of two of her secrets.

In my opinion, this ties up a few loose threads.
From here, one can speculate further whether Chuck first met her at school or whether he recognized her at school.
Did he "enlighten" her about it?
Does Grace really know everything or just one of the two?
Even a connection to August could be explained in this way.

I'm curious to see if there is interest and, if so, how you take my theory apart or agree with it.