Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[Beardedsmith]

You can believe what you want, but don't belittle me or feel 'frustrated' with me because I don't share your opinion. My opinion does nothing to you, let me have it.

I do feel frustrated with you for not being willing to say "hey I still support him and I believe in his product but what he did is shitty and he should have handled it differently." And I don't think that being frustrated with someone or a group of someones is belittling.

I'm not sure what you mean, that WWG said he'd wouldn't do something but did it anyway. I assume you mean he wouldn't delay the game again? I dont think he ever said that.

Also, WWG's fans aren't the (only?) aggressive ones in these debates.

But let me point out that many of those fans (like me) are also financial supporters of WWG. It's a fool's errand to try and change our views. If we conceded to the critics, and then stopped supporting WWG, he might stop working on the game altogether. So how about you let us cling to hope, and if we're lucky you'll eventually get something out of it.

He did say that, directly. And it always comes down to the assumption that any critic is not also a financial supporter so that it can justify dismissing the criticism. That's not always the case and it certainly isn't here.

 

[elbo911]

You think it's more likely that it happened later and the remaining dev time needed was increased by 2000% rather than increasing to 300%?

One thing being more likely than another doesn't mean the first thing

MUST

be the one that is true.

If whatever happened prevents him from doing anything for the game at all for the next 2 months or so, it will take him at least 2 months to do those last bits that may only be missing.

Maybe he, like me, has a planned 5 weeks hospital stay beginning in April. Maybe, like me, he recently had his apartment flooded due to a water main break and now has to run after craftsmen, insurance companies and a landlord to get the floor and the plumbing fixed before he leaves. Maybe, like me, he also has his teeth acting up and pays visits to the dentist about every second day.
Probably not, but I actually am in that very situation atm. Sorry for boring you with my life story.

 

[elbo911]

I do feel frustrated with you for not being willing to say "hey I still support him and I believe in his product but what he did is shitty and he should have handled it differently." And I don't think that being frustrated with someone or a group of someones is belittling.

But I have no reason to say that because I'm not convinced that 'what he did was shitty'. That's what I'm talking about. He thought and hoped he could deliver the update in March, but he failed. If he failed due to his own shortcomings or force majeure, we don't know. You can assume all you want, but you don't know, and I'm not obligated to share your assumptions.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

He did say that, directly. And it always comes down to the assumption that any critic is not also a financial supporter so that it can justify dismissing the criticism. That's not always the case and it certainly isn't here.

It would be helpful if you provided evidence of what he said, before one of us has to resort to "nuh-uh times infinity".

I'm not saying supporters can't criticize. That's up to each supporter to decide, and even my own Thranduil-level patience has its limits.

What I am saying is that some of us need to disagree with the most aggressive critics, and keep the faith by continuing our support of WWG, otherwise the project could be doomed to fail in a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But if you'd rather be right than see chapter 13, keep at it I guess.

 

[pinkie96]

One thing being more likely than another doesn't mean the first thing

be the one that is true.

If whatever happened prevents him from doing anything for the game at all for the next 2 months or so, it will take him at least 2 months to do those last bits that may only be missing.

Maybe he, like me, has a planned 5 weeks hospital stay beginning in April. Maybe, like me, he recently had his apartment flooded due to a water main break and now has to run after craftsmen, insurance companies and a landlord to get the floor and the plumbing fixed before he leaves. Maybe, like me, he also has his teeth acting up and pays visits to the dentist about every second day.
Probably not, but I actually am in that very situation atm. Sorry for boring you with my life story.

He said "update is still progressing, just at a slower pace." not that it had been put on pause. 2 days left of dev time turning into 60+ days is nowhere near as likely as 30 turning into 90+

There's no way the game needs only two days to cook but WWG has no time to do it for 2 months

 

[elbo911]

He said "update is still progressing, just at a slower pace." not that it had been put on pause. 2 days left of dev time turning into 60+ days is nowhere near as likely as 30 turning into 90+

There's no way the game needs only two days to cook but WWG has no time to do it for 2 months

*sigh*
Yes, he said that. If we should take every word literally or he really only meant to say 'the update is gonna come, it'll just take longer', we don't know.
I'm not in the mood to play Sherlock Holmes here. What I meant to point out was that there may be scenarios that you didn't think of. But if making claims about what is likely and what isn't just for the heck of it pleases you, knock yourself out.

 

[pinkie96]

*sigh*
Yes, he said that. If we should take every word literally or he really only meant to say 'the update is gonna come, it'll just take longer', we don't know.
I'm not in the mood to play Sherlock Holmes here. What I meant to point out was that there may be scenarios that you didn't think of. But if making claims about what is likely and what isn't just for the heck of it pleases you, knock yourself out.

No. you tried to claim both were equally likely as to prevent a shred of criticism to WWG. There's no scenario to excuse leaving the status update until a couple days before expected release.

You don't have to be Sherlock to figure out that the Dev time left didn't go from 2 days to 60

 

[elbo911]

you tried to claim both were equally likely

Nope, never did that. I said one thing being more likely than the other doesn't mean the 'more likely' thing must be the one that is true.

There's no scenario to excuse leaving the status update until a couple days before expected release.

None that you've managed (or even tried) to think of yet.

If you think you've figured something out, good for you. I still disagree. Let's leave it at that.

 

[preglovr12]

None that you've managed (or even tried) to think of yet.

If you think you've figured something out, good for you. I still disagree. Let's leave it at that.

You might want to re-read his March 29th report, he outright says he's "been having issues". There's nothing wrong with him wanting to keep personal things to himself, but he clearly broke his word that he'd keep people apprised of the situation.

 

[elbo911]

You might want to re-read his March 29th report, he outright says he's "been having issues". There's nothing wrong with him wanting to keep personal things to himself, but he clearly broke his word that he'd keep people apprised of the situation.

Not sure if my English grammar is good enough to understand your point. I'm German. If it's something about the used tense, it might escape me.

The way I read his post: He had issues that kept building up, but still thought he could finish in the planned time. Until he didn't. In my interpretation, that point would most likely have been March 29th or maybe a day or two earlier, depending on what happened and if he had more important stuff to do than make a post about it.

The issues of whatever nature obviously started earlier. The question is at what point we expect him to alert people of possible complications.
'I had a huge fight with my wife today, if this doesn't get better we might decide to get a divorce in two weeks and I'll have to focus on that.'
'My mom broke her ankle and got hospitalized, she might get an embolism and die in two weeks.'
...or whatever.
Those aren't great examples, I lack the energy to think of something better atm, sorry. But I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

Without knowing what these mysterious issues were/are, it's pointless to make assumptions as to when WWG should have realized a March release wouldn't be achievable.

I'm not arguing here, as pinkie96 implied, 'to prevent a shred of criticism to WWG'. I don't know him, I'm no patron of his. I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S BEEN LYING OR NOT. Neither does anybody else here.
I just don't see any evidence, only assumptions and interpretations. And I'm fed up with people always assuming the worst of others. -.-

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Without knowing what these mysterious issues were/are, it's pointless to make assumptions as to when WWG should have realized a March release wouldn't be achievable.

Moreover, patrons get billed monthly, and WWG reported the delay before the end of the month (even if only by a few days), so people can opt out before they get billed again. Even if WWG realized weeks ago that the delay would happen, what practical difference would it have made to report it sooner?

 

[pinkie96]

Moreover, patrons get billed monthly, and WWG reported the delay before the end of the month (even if only by a few days), so people can opt out before they get billed again. Even if WWG realized weeks ago that the delay would happen, what practical difference would it have made to report it sooner?

Manage expectations. What's the downside to telling people earlier when you know the expected date is way off?

Also I never said he had lied nor do I think he did.

 

[elbo911]

Moreover, patrons get billed monthly, and WWG reported the delay before the end of the month (even if only by a few days), so people can opt out before they get billed again. Even if WWG realized weeks ago that the delay would happen, what practical difference would it have made to report it sooner?

There's always the chance for someone to be not around for a few days, so the sooner to get such news the better. And if WWG says 'I'll let you know if anything comes up', I'd expect him to do so as soon as that anything comes up. That's simply good manners imho.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Manage expectations. What's the downside to telling people earlier when you know the expected date is way off?

Also I never said he had lied nor do I think he did.

There's always the chance for someone to be not around for a few days, so the sooner to get such news the better. And if WWG says 'I'll let you know if anything comes up', I'd expect him to do so as soon as that anything comes up. That's simply good manners imho.

...nah, this is the real reason:

Already scheduled my semen retention and you do this to me WWG? For shame...my balls are charged...but left wanting.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Sorry to bother, but I'm still really curious about this， View attachment 4708228 anyone know anything about it?

That's been out and complete for ages.
Try typing a username from that image into the search box on the forum's front page...

 

[elbo911]

That's been out and complete for ages.
Try typing a username from that image into the search box on the forum's front page...

Falcon, this is Blue Raven. The goose has nested.

 

[Only1P]

I don’t know, I think some people here are missing the point probably unintentionally for the sake of being charitable.

The point still stands, as he specifically said the pace has slowed down because he has some unrelated issues, but the previous status updates dont demonstrate it, they show regular progress with no mention of things getting stuck, while in practice, they were, that’s all

And someone here said would you rather be right than see chapter 13, ultimately I agree but don’t you see how developers can exploit this if they are put in a situation where they have to consider it?

I really dont know, I just feel like telling your supporters “It’s been a brutal wait” almost implying that the wait is about to be over while in practice progress is slowing down dramatically is….not cool.

 

[dartred]

So I'm seeing a pattern here. The people here (mostly, if not all the ones that don't even subscribe to him) are mad that he lied and/or he missed his date. The problem all comes down to is, the date.

So you're telling me, all this uproar would have not happened if he never said an expected release date in the first place? like he could spend the exact same time developing the game, releases the game in May and got no complaints, because he didn't make an expected release date? that's wild.

Well, maybe some complaints about the long dev time, but not persecuted to the same degree because he missed his predicted release date.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

So I'm seeing a pattern here. The people here (mostly, if not all the ones that don't even subscribe to him) are mad that he lied and/or he missed his date. The problem all comes down to is, the date.

So you're telling me, all this uproar would have not happened if he never said an expected release date in the first place? like he could spend the exact same time developing the game, releases the game in May and got no complaints, because he didn't make an expected release date? that's wild.

Well, maybe some complaints about the long dev time, but not persecuted to the same degree because he missed his predicted release date.

If WWG hadn't given a projected release window, yeah there'd probably be less anger. However, after all this time, I think supporters deserve to have some idea of when he'll be done. With every month that goes by people are growing more frustrated anyway, so naturally there would still be frustration and complaints, even if to a lesser degree.

 

[dartred]

I agree, a year and a half is a long time to wait, but that's not the issue that people are bringing up, not even a little. the issue that keeps being repeated is the "lie / betrayal". which is funny, because it's something WWG doesn't have to do in the first place. He doesn't have to give a date. Not sure if he ever checks this site, but if he does. I wouldn't be surprised if for his next game he just stops giving predictions all together. it won't change his development time. People just won't know what goal he's aiming for anymore.