I really did not want to put a hand into this long ass debate you people have been having, but it keeps giving me notifications about it and I'm getting really tired of that, so I'm going to put my two cents in while I'm here. Or sixty cents, depending on how you look at it.
There's a lot of debate about the genocide route, and a lot of confusing regarding specific details within the route.
Firstly and foremost, I think the worst connotation that people are bringing into this game while playing it is that it is a hentai 'undertale', while yes, there are obvious inspirations such as the major three routes, the meta narrative meanings of saving and loading, and some other details. It is a mindset that when applied to SHRIFT is basically a forced comparison between the two. Coming into this game expecting undertale's level of narrative perfection and writing is a massive folly, as you're expecting a lot out of what is, at the end of the day, a porn game.
SHRIFT is nowhere near perfect as a story, but it is complicated, and ignoring smaller details will make the whole experience harder to understand as a whole.
One other point of confusion I noticed was regarding the Old One and the modified prologue within the Genocide route of the game. People are confused due to Kazuya's incident and the pre-SHRIFT events being notably different compared to Neutral and True Mercy, this is an intentional mystery, it was there to be clarified by EX4. Where it is explained that the Twins had used their own abilities of Intervention to create a timeline where the ritual had succeeded, and the seed of the Old One had been planted within Kazuya. At some point within the run(implied by the trial version to be the Second Iron Maiden fight), there is a shift in which the timeline that our Genocide Kazuya is in has shifted.
This retroactively means that by nature, Kazuya is not the same in both routes. It is a different character in a sense, the game is not directly blaming us as the players yet, but instead, is trying to showcase by the outright darker acts the Merciless Kazuya commits that the two Kazuyas between Neutral/Mercy and Genocide are NOT the same person. The demons throughout genocide are NOT blaming the player, they're explicably blaming the Old One, referring to it as the thing that Kazuya is being overshadowed by.
We'll get to player blame later.
For those that want to argue that setting up anything for EX1-4 to explain, I'd like to remind you that the EX Scenarios are NOT some kind of bonus DLC, but an intentionally important additional part of the narrative, they come with the game, they are meant to be a part of the game. Not an extra. This can be seen in multiple aspects, such as EX2 finally making good on Hecate's threat from the very end of Chapter 1.
These EX Scenarios are explained to be the Old One's latest attempts, trying to modify aspects of other timelines in the hope that it would make True Mercy fail, make the official timeline fail. For example, EX1 sets up the Harpy Queen in the direct hope that Mother Rabbit would effectively 'lose it', giving up on her system of beliefs and becoming a demon so cruel that Kazuya would not be able to find a way to befriend her. EX2 has the Old One directly involved through Hecate in the hopes of corrupting the TM Timeline's Hecate and getting access to the Official Timeline.
Next, let's talk about the Hyakki fight.
A lot of people want to complain about the impossible difficulty of the fight, which while I agree is true, I think its rather stupid to complain about that specifically? It really has nothing to do with the narrative we're debating, okay, Hyakki is impossible, what does this have to do with the narrative of the Genocide Route?
Anyways, once you've cheated and beaten that fight, you get the actual first instance of player blame, or player thanks, if you will, as the Old One both chastises you and praises you for choosing this route. Stating that it and you have been disconnected from Kazuya due to Hyakki's efforts.
It's not a big deal, not much to be said. However the Old One and the Intervener of course, are no longer able to access the game. Though you can bypass this by reopening the game approx- 7 times after it's broken, and the intervention device will restore itself.
One thing I do think is worth discussing about the Hyakki fight is not that it was impossible, but that it was made impossible, it was a change made later on. People like to use this as saying Alan hates people who chose genocide and is shitting on them, but thats happenstance and assumptions made purely to fulfill other peoples' narratives of the developer. I think a large part of this perspective comes from the fact that we had a large wave of new SHRIFT players due to MGQ Paradox's Collab, of which SHRIFT's Kazuya was a participant. Those players came in around the time EX4 was in development.
Alan made this change to the Hyakki fight around the time between EX3 and EX4, it was a shadow update that was not just a retroactive shitfest as some people like to think. We don't have a clear answer, but when EX4 came out, it was explained that Hyakki had changed her stance on matters and chosen to prevent the Genocide timeline from reaching a proper end and allowing the Old One dominance over it.
All routes are necessary for the narrative of SHRIFT to make sense, without Neutral Routes, the Intervener would lack the neccesarily knowledge to understand True Mercy and the risks of Samael. Without Genocide, the Intervener would never understand why the Old One needed the ritual or Kazuya as a host. The Hyakki fight change seems to be a live change Alan made in the hopes that people would notice it, as dialogue was ALSO changed around that time to show that Hyakki had been increasingly motivated for one reason or another.
Without this change, the Genocide 'deadlock', if you will, that allows the EX Scenarios to happen, wouldn't happen. It also explains why the EX Scenarios aren't available for the Genocide Player, simply put, theres no rhyme or reason for the Old One to mess with other demons when he's already gained control of this timeline, and of this Kazuya. It's a pointless endeavor. If you think that's half assed and an excuse, then at that point you have to ask if you actually care about the story, or are simply coping for the sake of coping.
Player blame exists in EX4, the game makes note of how other inteveners' actions allowed for the Old One to perform what it has, and blames them for abandoning Kazuya. Except it is not the game that makes this claim, it is Cheshire. The intervention device herself. Created by Richard from SHRIFT 2, or at the very least, placed within the game by Richard's hands. We can't make too many assumptions about Richard yet, as there are still two chapters of SHRIFT 2 left to come out that could give us greater insight into his beliefs. Though we know for a fact that he comes from a timeline where demons themselves are a lot less aggressive and cruel, or well, most of them are, for that matter, Richard himself may see the Intervener's actions from this point of view.
The mistake we're making here is assuming this player blame applies to us.
After Genocide, one of three paths is available to you as a player.
You can choose to be pardoned, and continue on with a new run.
You can choose to move forward, be disconnected, and leave the game be, assuming you're done with it.
You can choose to move forward, be disconnected, and reboot the game enough to force your way back in.
The second option is in a sense, abandonment, you've either found yourself satisfied with your experience, or have deemed it a boring or shitty one and left it to rot. In that way, the interveners, or players, who have done that, fit Cheshire and Richard's depiction of them. Albeit not for the same reasons they believe, but considering the weight our actions have on the world of SHRIFT, its not unfair for them to hate the ones who leave it in a sorry state.
The first and third however, are the people who have gotten to EX4 after a Genocide Run, by extension they are not one of the interveners who abandoned Kazuya, but rather came back to finish what they started and in a sense, repaired it.
This game never intended for the players to experience just True Mercy, a complete experience of SHRIFT would involve seeing all of it's endings. Neutral endings give context to True Mercy, True Mercy ties a bow on the original narrative, and Genocide brings up more questions for answers to be given through the EX Scenarios. One cannot look at any as the ending of SHRIFT, because by considering any of them the final end to the story, you're not only disregarding the whole package, but going out of your way to limit your experience with the game.
EX4 is not a 'lovechild of spite', it's purpose has been misunderstood as well as Genocide's and that is likely due to Alan's own writing, he's not perfect, he's made mistakes, and the ambiguity and vagueness he's left in some narrative decisions are what has led to somebody debates about the failures of his work's story. I do blame him in part for the fact that these debates happen, as had he been clearer, I'm sure a lot of people would have a lot less to complain about.
Now that I've said all that, the last thing left to actually discuss would of course be, why go True Mercy? In what world can Genocide not be the right path?
I could've discussed this first, but in the worry that people would start ignoring my words and say I'm 'yapping' once I start advocating for True Mercy, I decided to explain everything else before this.
Demons are murderers.
Let's get that out of the way, you are entirely right, any of you who believe that demons as a race including all their many species are killing people is entirely correct. Well done on figuring that out.
So why then, am I saying that sparing them is justified? Well, I'm not, not exactly. SHRIFT does not ever once try to say that the demons are good girls that should be spared, far from it, its a horrid leap in logic to assume that because SHRIFT allows you to befriend a few choice individuals amongst their species that it is saying they're all nice and good people.
I have placed a review on this thread that goes over every single demon in Neutral/Mercy and explaining why they can be spared, or have reasoning you can figure out for them to be spare able, from Kazuya's perspective. While I think my thoughts there are a little dated, they still mostly hold true.
Species demons, such as Barghest, Lampas, Echo, Camazotz, are not cases in which the species is suddenly justifiable. It is simply that individuals amongst that species have risen above the standard of their nature. They were given many chances yes, courtesy of Kazuya, but it doesn't change the fact that they demonstrated the capacity for that change. Lampas gave up on her light, she rejected the entire purpose of her species, even outright calling it out as a twisted game Hecate has designed and cursing out her former ruler for it. Barghest while simple-minded, was willing to trust Kazuya after he demonstrated kindness, once she had been shown that act, she not once after showed him hostility, appearing in My Room without another appearance of that specific barghest after that. Echo was at a loss after seeing the true love the Original had experienced, and was at even more of a loss after seeing Kazuya reject the possibility of quelling her as a threat with the powder, allowing Kazuya to complete dissaude her with words alone in the battle that follows and making her completely give up on the idea of forcibly claiming him. Camazotz, confused by the actions of a kind human that didn't resist any of her advances in My Room, and terrified of the idea that Kazuya might hate her for the actions of her brethren, desperately sought comfort within the recesses of his mind, and was welcomed in a symbiotic relationship that allowed her to rest at ease for the first time since coming to the human world.
Yet, in EX2, multiple barghest and Lampas show that they don't care about Kazuya's ideals, and Kazuya, while not trying to kill them, also doesn't assume he can make them turn over a new leaf. In the Echo Dream Battle, the echoes there explain that just because there are kind echoes that seek love in their species, there are certainly ones like them that seek souls and souls alone. And of course, the Camazotz Kazuya bonds with is the singular exception amongst its own species.
Kazuya doesn't go out of his way to think, oh "they're good demons that don't want to hurt people", no, Kazuya is trying to survive, and as he's told by the familiar and Lampas after their first encounter, its possible that his escape might be made easier by sparing the demons he fights rather than killing them.
Kazuya has been in stasis for five years, and the only people he has to interact with directly are demons that sought out his soul, his kindness to them can be seen as the result of a psychological desire for friendship and intimacy, not even of a sexual kind. The poor guy could use friends, so when he sees the opportunity to shift minds or to speak them to on some deeper level, he tries to, he's not going out of his way to say demons are good people in the slightest. His Devil's Office is not going against the war effort, its trying to do specific missions for the sake of seeking out MOW, and applying his pacifistic views where possible, but also knowing when to apply lethal force(Kazuya kills the Harpy Queen in EX1, knowing there was no chance for reconsideration).
Arachne
All of the opportunities that the My Room gang had and eventually used for change where only possible because of Kazuya's kindness, and many people argue that this is naive kindness.
That is entirely correct, Kazuya is kind to the point of naivete. This is a man that's entire life and world has been turned upside down after being asleep for five years, his girlfriend is likely out to kill him, and these demons are the only kind of conversation he can really have, he's not just a horny bastard, he's a lonely man who's been lonely for a long time already. Whether it was not having parents at a young age, or his best friend being the only voice of a reason in a terrifying place, Kazuya is desperate. His naivete is his folly, because the game has never once tried to dictate that Kazuya was in the right for this disposition. The angelic magic within him yes, would have caused problems for the world due to him murdering demons, but in every single Neutral Ending Variant, Samael is not released, and either Kazuya lives on or the threat he poses is removed depending on which Neutral End you see.
Yes, the bonds he formed allowed him to reach his happiest ending, but that does NOT mean that forming these bonds was the correct thing to do.
Arachne exists as the counter to Kazuya's beliefs, and their battle perfectly reflects that. Arachne acts as the natural order symbolically, and the horrors Kazuya experiences within her cave are meant to be the final nail in the coffin, the reality check telling him to wake the fuck up and accept that all demons are murderous, and that just because he's bonded with a few doesn't mean they're on some uphill battle to coexistence. Demons eat humans, humans kill demons to survive. That's the natural order that SHRIFT has been trying to impose on Kazuya on his entire journey until now, and Kazuya has refused to accept it every single step of the way.
When Kazuya defeats Arachne, and chooses not to fire, his words tell all his thoughts. He knows that if he kills Arachne, he'd be proving her right, but in saying that, he knows he has, he knows humans and demons will never find some true coexistence, and he knows that the food chain Arachne has dictated is what the world has come to. That these two races will likely be fighting to the death forever, which is why he doesn't say that Arachne can change, nor does he try to say that he thinks demons are good people. His own words are that
He doesn't want to kill any demons, he's understood that he's in the wrong, he knows by now that he's incorrect in believing that there could ever be a route for some 'true peace'. Despite that, Kazuya doesn't want to accept that, deep down he knows Arachne is right, but he wants to refuse it with his whole being, because once he gives in to what Arachne has declared, it will be unavoidable truth, and so he retains his naivete, tries to keep believing in his own ideals. Knowing full well those ideals are wrong.
Kazuya gives them three or four chances, he spares them despite their murderous intent, he's too good a guy in a cruel world. He knows this, and SHRIFT finally makes us see where Arachne's words have taken him through the EX Scenarios and the Epilogue.
The Final State of Kazuya
I think that the most beautiful thing about Arachne's narrative purpose is the actual effect its had on Kazuya by the end of the game. With accessing the EX Scenarios requiring everybody in My Room, Alan was able to go all out in demonstrating how Kazuya's opinion on matters had changed due to Arachne. There is still a kindness in him, in the epilogue he explains that he operates as a Demon Hunter, both helping humans and demons and trying to make ends meet for the two races where he can, he's a private investigator that tries to make peace where he can. In EX2 he expresses the desire to help Mormo out knowing full well the risks, and even afterwards is willing to forgive Mormo after seeing what Hecate had put her up to.
Yet in EX1, we also see that Kazuya isn't just a pacifist either, he understands the risks, and I'd like to believe that is all due to Arachne. The Harpy Queen fight demonstrates a ruthlessness Kazuya has never showcased through the entire True Mercy run, knowing full well that her mere existence was a risk to everybody existing in that EX Timeline, he did not hesitate and did not even give the Intervener a choice to make, taking them out with another shot within moments of their last words' being spoken.
Our Final Kazuya understands not every conflict can be resolved peacefully, and he is more than prepared to use violence if it really is the last method. In a way, the events of SHRIFT have broken him, in a way he'll never fully recover, but despite that, he's maintaing as many shreds of his original lonely beliefs as he can, even if he's the only one who will.
SHRIFT is not a perfect game, and I think honestly Alan should've taken a little less from Undertale's book, a lot of the misunderstandings in his attempted story and a lot of the genuien flaws with it coming from misdesigning the trio of routes as he did. Still, I think its unfair that so much outright hate is given to this single developer who gave so much to his project in the hopes that people would enjoy it.
At the end of the day, whether you agree or disagree with me. There are tons of H-Games with far less disputed perfect narratives, the original MGQ and Black Souls are popular for similar reasons. There are a lot of us who love SHRIFT for what it is, and I would hope that nobody in this debate, in other future debates, or just in this thread, or anywhere else for that matter, shits on one another for their taste and their opinions on this narrative.
I personally will never forget the chills Last Confession gave me in this game's True Mercy ending, and I feel bad if some people can't say they had the same feeling. I've given my thoughts on the matter, if you disagree, feel free to tell me, just don't be antagonistic about it.
And please, enough with the hate for the creator, its just a shitty practice, Alan is clearly aware of his mistakes, and SHRIFT 2 is taking different decisions and directions in all manners of way, that last thing he needs is more people telling him what he fucked up. It'll just bring down the motivation of the poor guy. Everybody's gotten their jabs in already, we need to let sleeping dogs lie eventually.
No but seriously, this debate has been going on for a while, I'm constantly checking if people need help with their copies of the game so this is not helping matters :sob:.
Alright, bye now
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