VN Ren'Py Yesterday's Crossroads [Ch.3 v0.4.1a] [CHAQUINN0]

[risky0]

Personally I rather marry someone less attractive than someone like Kim if she was hot. I don't even consider looks anymore when I play AVN's unless I don't know anything about any of the characters. But once I get to know them I throw looks out of the window

For me to find my potential romantic partner worth getting to know and spending time with, she has to be beautiful enough to make me interested in her, but beauty can never be the only criterion, of course, and the perception of beauty is a very different concept for everyone.
I don “t think Kim ‘s personality is horrible, she did something like that to protect the man she was in love with, she is very remorseful and it ’s enough for me that she regrets it.

 

[motseer]

One of the reasons why I don't like Kim is that she's a lying, skanky 'ho!

 

[xortor]

wtf is up with that hair she needs a new due

 

[Elduriel]

View attachment 4686664

 

[xortor]

View attachment 4686770

Lemme help with that.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

A simple example, do you want to marry a woman you don't find beautiful, no matter how much people deny it, the first criterion is always about beauty, if she is not beautiful you are not interested, simple as that. As I said, this is my opinion.

Yeah, no. Not for me. I'm much more in line with Dessolos' view on this. As long as she's not actually repulsive (and I actually find Kim kind of cute, even with the nightmare hair), I would much prefer a plainer woman over a bombshell bitch (or even a bombshell Karen).

I don “t think Kim ‘s personality is horrible, she did something like that to protect the man she was in love with, she is very remorseful and it ’s enough for me that she regrets it.

Same for me. Although I would tend to be cautious until real trust was rebuilt (assuming it could be), I try to give people who do wrong a second chance, even in VNs. If they screw that up as well, then it's not going to happen.

 

[motseer]

C'mon, guys. Did you really think I meant that "skanky 'ho" joke?

Spoiler

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[SlowGoesSlow]

View attachment 4686664

Edna from The Incredibles lookin ass

 

[ename144]

Same for me. Although I would tend to be cautious until real trust was rebuilt (assuming it could be), I try to give people who do wrong a second chance, even in VNs. If they screw that up as well, then it's not going to happen.

I tend to be extremely forgiving in these sorts of games, but Kim is a non-starter for me. The thing is, Kim hasn't really done anything wrong. Breaking up with someone is painful, but it's actually the right thing to do if you don't see a future with them. So Kim dumping the MC at the start of the game, harsh as it seems, isn't something that needs to be forgiven. I don't bear her any ill will for ending things.

I do, however, consider their relationship "pining for the fjords" levels of dead. Kim made it very clear that she didn't tell the MC she was leaving specifically so that he couldn't change her mind. That is not some rash action in a moment of weakness, that is a premediated act to eject the MC from her life. However much she might have come to regret that decision afterwards, this is not something that can be papered over. When push next comes to shove is Kim really going to accept the MC as an equal partner, or is she going to keep her options open?

I'm certainly not going to bet on the former until I have copious evidence that she has changed at a fundamental level. Essentially, we'd have to build a new relationship from square one, and that's not a viable option when the game is filled with alternative lovely girls who are well past square one at the point Kim rejoins the story. Tough luck kid, but them's the breaks.

That said, in practice it seems like Kim can't even make it back to square one because her explanation for events is bordering on nonsensical. The idea that distancing herself from the MC for his own protection was so painful for her that she's now eager to endanger him all over again is not what I would call a winning argument. At best it makes her look desperate and indecisive, at worst she comes across as delusional.

And again, neither of those are sins she needs to atone for, but they are serious character flaws she should address. I don't mind helping her work on improving herself, but it will be both easier and safer to help from deep inside the friend zone.

 

[Elduriel]

I tend to be extremely forgiving in these sorts of games, but Kim is a non-starter for me. The thing is, Kim hasn't really done anything wrong. Breaking up with someone is painful, but it's actually the right thing to do if you don't see a future with them. So Kim dumping the MC at the start of the game, harsh as it seems, isn't something that needs to be forgiven. I don't bear her any ill will for ending things.

I do, however, consider their relationship "pining for the fjords" levels of dead. Kim made it very clear that she didn't tell the MC she was leaving specifically so that he couldn't change her mind. That is not some rash action in a moment of weakness, that is a premediated act to eject the MC from her life. However much she might have come to regret that decision afterwards, this is not something that can be papered over. When push next comes to shove is Kim really going to accept the MC as an equal partner, or is she going to keep her options open?

I'm certainly not going to bet on the former until I have copious evidence that she has changed at a fundamental level. Essentially, we'd have to build a new relationship from square one, and that's not a viable option when the game is filled with alternative lovely girls who are well past square one at the point Kim rejoins the story. Tough luck kid, but them's the breaks.

That said, in practice it seems like Kim can't even make it back to square one because her explanation for events is bordering on nonsensical. The idea that distancing herself from the MC for his own protection was so painful for her that she's now eager to endanger him all over again is not what I would call a winning argument. At best it makes her look desperate and indecisive, at worst she comes across as delusional.

And again, neither of those are sins she needs to atone for, but they are serious character flaws she should address. I don't mind helping her work on improving herself, but it will be both easier and safer to help from a deep inside the friend zone.

it's all sorts of stupid how Kim handled it. First she is like daddy gonna hurt him, but I can't tell for whatever reason... then she comes back a year later and it's all good all of a sudden. Fuck her honestly.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

I tend to be extremely forgiving in these sorts of games, but Kim is a non-starter for me. The thing is, Kim hasn't really done anything wrong. Breaking up with someone is painful, but it's actually the right thing to do if you don't see a future with them. So Kim dumping the MC at the start of the game, harsh as it seems, isn't something that needs to be forgiven. I don't bear her any ill will for ending things.

I do, however, consider their relationship "pining for the fjords" levels of dead. Kim made it very clear that she didn't tell the MC she was leaving specifically so that he couldn't change her mind. That is not some rash action in a moment of weakness, that is a premediated act to eject the MC from her life. However much she might have come to regret that decision afterwards, this is not something that can be papered over. When push next comes to shove is Kim really going to accept the MC as an equal partner, or is she going to keep her options open?

I'm certainly not going to bet on the former until I have copious evidence that she has changed at a fundamental level. Essentially, we'd have to build a new relationship from square one, and that's not a viable option when the game is filled with alternative lovely girls who are well past square one at the point Kim rejoins the story. Tough luck kid, but them's the breaks.

That said, in practice it seems like Kim can't even make it back to square one because her explanation for events is bordering on nonsensical. The idea that distancing herself from the MC for his own protection was so painful for her that she's now eager to endanger him all over again is not what I would call a winning argument. At best it makes her look desperate and indecisive, at worst she comes across as delusional.

And again, neither of those are sins she needs to atone for, but they are serious character flaws she should address. I don't mind helping her work on improving herself, but it will be both easier and safer to help from a deep inside the friend zone.

it's all sorts of stupid how Kim handled it. First she is like daddy gonna hurt him, but I can't tell for whatever reason... then she comes back a year later and it's all good all of a sudden. Fuck her honestly.

You seem to be oversimplifying what actually happened. I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, but the circumstance is a bit different the second time.

Originally, her father was breathing down her neck and constantly checking on her. Based on what she said, he felt like the MC was holding Da-Som back from her potential, which is why he apparently was going to come and possibly serious hurt / kill the MC. (She even specifically mentions that her sister had been dating some guy, her father apparently made it so the guy could never walk again in some "freak accident".) And I'm also not saying how she handled it (with no explanation whatsoever) was OK. But it sounds like she believed there was a real threat to the MC.

Now, it's a bit different. She says that internet-influencer girl that Da-Som worked for temporarily gave her father some sense of control again, so he stopped focusing on and pestering her: the middle-of-the-night calls stopped. Getting a job at the same company as the MC was a way to "continue building her future" in her father's eyes. While her father may not like it, he seems to accept that she at least is "making something of her life". If what she's said is true, that basically means that her dad is still a threat, so things haven't really changed in that regard. But he is a "dormant" threat now, so as long as he doesn't get the idea again that she's wasting her life, Da-Som can apparently stay for good.

She says that once her sister, Eun-ji, manages to get to the MC's city as well, her father will never hear from either daughter again. So she plans never to leave again and to make herself and her sister disappear — from her father's life, in whatever way that needs to happen. So if she's not with the MC again, she and Eun-ji will probably drop all contact with anyone they knew so it's much harder / (impossible?) for her father ever to find them again. If with the MC, I assume she'll ask him to disappear with them this time, so the MC also stops being under threat from her father.

Again, I'm not trying to convince you to try to like her, to try to give her a chance, or anything of the kind. I'm just saying that "I can't tell for whatever reason" and "it's all good" don't really match up with what she's said or how she acts. She even says she knows / understands that the MC moved on. That doesn't sound like someone who thinks things are "all good" to me. That sounds to me like someone who not only knows they screwed up, but who is also pretty sure you won't forgive them.

It also doesn't sound to me like "she's now eager to endanger him all over again". She gives the choice entirely to the MC; she seems convinced her dad won't be a problem now (though I think that's fairly naïf of her and just wishful thinking); and it sounds to me like she plans to disappear so he'll never find her or her sister again — and by extension, never find the MC, either, if he goes with her. And ofc that — whether to forgive and/or try to start over again with her — is the player's choice.

 

[Dessolos]

You seem to be oversimplifying what actually happened. I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, but the circumstance is a bit different the second time.

Originally, her father was breathing down her neck and constantly checking on her. Based on what she said, he felt like the MC was holding Da-Som back from her potential, which is why he apparently was going to come and possibly serious hurt / kill the MC. (She even specifically mentions that her sister had been dating some guy, her father apparently made it so the guy could never walk again in some "freak accident".) And I'm also not saying how she handled it (with no explanation whatsoever) was OK. But it sounds like she believed there was a real threat to the MC.

Now, it's a bit different. She says that internet-influencer girl that Da-Som worked for temporarily gave her father some sense of control again, so he stopped focusing on and pestering her: the middle-of-the-night calls stopped. Getting a job at the same company as the MC was a way to "continue building her future" in her father's eyes. While her father may not like it, he seems to accept that she at least is "making something of her life". If what she's said is true, that basically means that her dad is still a threat, so things haven't really changed in that regard. But he is a "dormant" threat now, so as long as he doesn't get the idea again that she's wasting her life, Da-Som can apparently stay for good.

She says that once her sister, Eun-ji, manages to get to the MC's city as well, her father will never hear from either daughter again. So she plans never to leave again and to make herself and her sister disappear — from her father's life, in whatever way that needs to happen. So if she's not with the MC again, she and Eun-ji will probably drop all contact with anyone they knew so it's much harder / (impossible?) for her father ever to find them again. If with the MC, I assume she'll ask him to disappear with them this time, so the MC also stops being under threat from her father.

Again, I'm not trying to convince you to try to like her, to try to give her a chance, or anything of the kind. I'm just saying that "I can't tell for whatever reason" and "it's all good" don't really match up with what she's said or how she acts. She even says she knows / understands that the MC moved on. That doesn't sound like someone who thinks things are "all good" to me. That sounds to me like someone who not only knows they screwed up, but who is also pretty sure you won't forgive them.

It also doesn't sound to me like "she's now eager to endanger him all over again". She gives the choice entirely to the MC; she seems convinced her dad won't be a problem now (though I think that's fairly naïf of her and just wishful thinking); and it sounds to me like she plans to disappear so he'll never find her or her sister again — and by extension, never find the MC, either, if he goes with her. And ofc that — whether to forgive and/or try to start over again with her — is the player's choice.

Honestly my biggest issue with Kim and finding it hard to forgive her and give her a spot as a main path I play rather than a content save. Is for this simple reason , I understand the reasons and the fears she had for leaving and not telling the MC. But letting the MC going almost a full year without knowing the reason why is what I find more unforgiveable as there is nothing worst than not knowing the why she left when you loved one another.

Now i'm not saying she should of told him right away. But maybe 3 - 5 months when she was settled in her new job I feel she could of told the MC without fear of him going to Korea. Cause at that point I don't think he would have or been able to help anyhow cause if I recall Kim's job involved alot of travelling.

So for me I think if she didn't leave the MC in the dark and told him some months later no matter how much I don't agree with what she did I would of understood and found it much easier to forgive her. Even if I found it a bit of a stretch , cause what mattered is she had that fear and that would be enough for me to go along with it.

 

[ename144]

You seem to be oversimplifying what actually happened. I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, but the circumstance is a bit different the second time.

Originally, her father was breathing down her neck and constantly checking on her. Based on what she said, he felt like the MC was holding Da-Som back from her potential, which is why he apparently was going to come and possibly serious hurt / kill the MC. (She even specifically mentions that her sister had been dating some guy, her father apparently made it so the guy could never walk again in some "freak accident".) And I'm also not saying how she handled it (with no explanation whatsoever) was OK. But it sounds like she believed there was a real threat to the MC.

Now, it's a bit different. She says that internet-influencer girl that Da-Som worked for temporarily gave her father some sense of control again, so he stopped focusing on and pestering her: the middle-of-the-night calls stopped. Getting a job at the same company as the MC was a way to "continue building her future" in her father's eyes. While her father may not like it, he seems to accept that she at least is "making something of her life". If what she's said is true, that basically means that her dad is still a threat, so things haven't really changed in that regard. But he is a "dormant" threat now, so as long as he doesn't get the idea again that she's wasting her life, Da-Som can apparently stay for good.

She says that once her sister, Eun-ji, manages to get to the MC's city as well, her father will never hear from either daughter again. So she plans never to leave again and to make herself and her sister disappear — from her father's life, in whatever way that needs to happen. So if she's not with the MC again, she and Eun-ji will probably drop all contact with anyone they knew so it's much harder / (impossible?) for her father ever to find them again. If with the MC, I assume she'll ask him to disappear with them this time, so the MC also stops being under threat from her father.

Again, I'm not trying to convince you to try to like her, to try to give her a chance, or anything of the kind. I'm just saying that "I can't tell for whatever reason" and "it's all good" don't really match up with what she's said or how she acts. She even says she knows / understands that the MC moved on. That doesn't sound like someone who thinks things are "all good" to me. That sounds to me like someone who not only knows they screwed up, but who is also pretty sure you won't forgive them.

It also doesn't sound to me like "she's now eager to endanger him all over again". She gives the choice entirely to the MC; she seems convinced her dad won't be a problem now (though I think that's fairly naïf of her and just wishful thinking); and it sounds to me like she plans to disappear so he'll never find her or her sister again — and by extension, never find the MC, either, if he goes with her. And ofc that — whether to forgive and/or try to start over again with her — is the player's choice.

I think understand your points, but I don't agree. I don't see how Kim can think her father won't be a problem just because her sister is no longer in Korea. If it were that simple the MC would never have been in danger in the first place, Eun-ji would have been. Kim made it *very* clear that her father would find a way to hurt the MC if he continued to 'stall' Kim's life (as he evidently saw it), which had nothing to do with her sister. I'm skeptical her father really had that kind of power, but it's not impossible and that was her argument.

Yet now she's trying to smuggle her sister out from under her father's nose and doesn't seem worried about his draconian retaliation. The impression I got was not that her father was dormant, but rather that her new corporate job had mollified him, at least for the moment, because she was back on track to whatever lofty heights he expected of her. I find that explanation pretty flimsy, particularly since there was nothing stopping her from getting a new job last time, but that's what the game seems to be saying.

So let's say we buy her reasoning, and further buy that Kim can keep climbing the corporate ladder indefinitely (rather than burn out in a few months as she did with the internet girl in Korea). Won't her father be furious when Eun-ji starts bumming around the US just like Kim used to do? And won't he instantly blame the exact same guy he blamed last time Kim defied him? Sure seems like he would to me. So really, nothing has changed - save maybe endangering Kim's sister in addition to endangering the MC. It's not like her dad won't be able to track them down instantly even if Kim never talks to him again: he knows exactly where to start looking! So either Kim's dad was never the implacable threat she thought he was, she stopped caring about the consequences, or she somehow fails to realize the danger hasn't gone away. None of those make her very appealing to me.

Now you suggested she recognizes the danger and plans to disappear with the MC once her sister arrives. To me that would make her actions dramatically worse than before. Running away from your home and family is a hell of a thing to ask even when you aren't doing so to escape violent reprisals... and I can't help but notice she hasn't actually asked it yet! Which means that far from committing to being honest with the MC, in this scenario Kim is once again deceiving him until she can drops her last minute bombshell! That's reprehensible, regardless of whether it's motivated by stupidity or malice. It's not like the MC would be safe if he declines to run away with Kim; he'd effectively be left holding the bag when her father comes calling! This would be Kim making the same mistake all over again, just this time erring on the side of endangering the MC.

That's why I said Kim comes across as either indecisive or delusional. She acknowledges that she made a mistake, but she doesn't seem to realize that the reasons why she made that mistake don't go away just because she noticed it. She has no explanation for her about face other than missing the MC, which shouldn't have come as a surprise if her feelings were that strong. If her explanation is enough for you, that's fair. But it's not enough for me, not by a longshot. I can't trust her judgement until I see clear and consistent evidence that she's changed. Her inexplicable (to me) behavior now is just compounding the problem. And if she really does expect him to drop everything and run away with her in an instant, then Kim has learned nothing.

As far as Kim being "all good," that is not what I was trying to say. She's clearly far from all good. But again, that's not something she needs to be 'forgiven' for, it's just an indication that life is imperfect. Not much of a surprise, I'm afraid, but it has no bearing on whether to start over with her. That's a question of whether her goals and thought processes are a good fit for the MC. For my MC, that is a clear no. It may not be fair, but Kim's going to have to live with the disappointment.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Honestly my biggest issue with Kim and finding it hard to forgive her and give her a spot as a main path I play rather than a content save. Is for this simple reason , I understand the reasons and the fears she had for leaving and not telling the MC. But letting the MC going almost a full year without knowing the reason why is what I find more unforgiveable as there is nothing worst than not knowing the why she left when you loved one another.

Now i'm not saying she should of told him right away. But maybe 3 - 5 months when she was settled in her new job I feel she could of told the MC without fear of him going to Korea. Cause at that point I don't think he would have or been able to help anyhow cause if I recall Kim's job involved alot of travelling.

So for me I think if she didn't leave the MC in the dark and told him some months later no matter how much I don't agree with what she did I would of understood and found it much easier to forgive her. Even if I found it a bit of a stretch , cause what mattered is she had that fear and that would be enough for me to go along with it.

Yeah, IDK. Like I said in the underlined parts of my previous response, I wasn't trying to convince anyone to give her a chance or anything. I just was trying to point out how it came across as very oversimplified in earlier posts.

Kim made it *very* clear that her father would find a way to hurt the MC if he continued to 'stall' Kim's life (as he evidently saw it), which had nothing to do with her sister. I'm skeptical her father really had that kind of power, but it's not impossible and that was her argument.

Yet now she's trying to smuggle her sister out from under her father's nose and doesn't seem worried about his draconian retaliation. The impression I got was not that her father was dormant, but rather that her new corporate job had mollified him, at least for the moment, because she was back on track to whatever lofty heights he expected of her. I find that explanation pretty flimsy, particularly since there was nothing stopping her from getting a new job last time, but that's what the game seems to be saying.

So let's say we buy her reasoning, and further buy that Kim can keep climbing the corporate ladder indefinitely (rather than burn out in a few months as she did with the internet girl in Korea). Won't her father be furious when Eun-ji starts bumming around the US just like Kim used to do? And won't he instantly blame the exact same guy he blamed last time Kim defied him? Sure seems like he would to me. So really, nothing has changed - save maybe endangering Kim's sister in addition to endangering the MC. It's not like her dad won't be able to track them down instantly even if Kim never talks to him again: he knows exactly where to start looking! So either Kim's dad was never the implacable threat she thought he was, she stopped caring about the consequences, or she somehow fails to realize the danger hasn't gone away. None of those make her very appealing to me.

Now you suggested she recognizes the danger and plans to disappear with the MC once her sister arrives. To me that would make her actions dramatically worse than before. Running away from your home and family is a hell of a thing to ask even when you aren't doing so to escape violent reprisals... and I can't help but notice she hasn't actually asked it yet! Which means that far from committing to being honest with the MC, in this scenario Kim is once again deceiving him until she can drops her last minute bombshell! That's reprehensible, regardless of whether it's motivated by stupidity or malice. It's not like the MC would be safe if he declines to run away with Kim; he'd effectively be left holding the bag when her father comes calling! This would be Kim making the same mistake all over again, just this time erring on the side of endangering the MC.

Not sure why you wrote the first two paragraphs, given what you wrote in the fourth. I think "doesn't seem worried about his draconian retaliation" is a pretty big mischaracterization. She's absolutely seems worried to me, and not just sad / sorry; otherwise, why develop some kind of plan to appease her father? If she didn't worry that he would potentially do something extreme if he thought her life stalled out again, why try to get away? She had already gotten him to loosen up a little by being employed and putting her life "back on track".

And the point is, in fact, what she perceives as something her father could do. Reality doesn't matter, actually, because her perception of it is what's behind her actions. Is she very possibly totally wrong about the actual threat or how things might play out if the threat is real? Absolutely. But her belief or naïveté is the direct cause of how she behaves. Again, not trying to justify anything here. But even if there's no real threat, that doesn't change how she will act; her belief that it's there is what motivates her to do what she does.

I don't see how Kim can think her father won't be a problem just because her sister is no longer in Korea. If it were that simple the MC would never have been in danger in the first place, Eun-ji would have been.

Not sure where you get this idea. It certainly shouldn't have been from my post. I never said he wouldn't be a problem. In fact, I very specifically said she seemed to act like he was a "dormant threat". If he is mollified so he's not currently going to take any severe action, then the threat from him is dormant: he is suspending his potential action. That implies that he absolutely could be a problem at any given time in the future. And to be clear, that wasn't my own opinion of how things actually are, but how I believe Da-Som seemed to think they were.

That's why I said Kim comes across as either indecisive or delusional.

She acknowledges that she made a mistake, but she doesn't seem to realize that the reasons why she made that mistake don't go away just because she noticed it. She has no explanation for her about face other than missing the MC, which shouldn't have come as a surprise if her feelings were that strong.

Kim might be somewhat indecisive, I agree. I think "delusional" is too harsh... unless, ofc, you mean "delusional" in the colloquial sense similar to naïveté (i.e., not thinking things through very well). To me, she seems totally naïf — but that's a far cry from being actually crazy. I think she's desperate and that's prevented her from thinking things through clearly. She seems very driven by emotion and not logically-minded when it comes to her father and sister.

If her explanation is enough for you, that's fair. But it's not enough for me, not by a longshot. I can't trust her judgement until I see clear and consistent evidence that she's changed. Her inexplicable (to me) behavior now is just compounding the problem. And if she really does expect him to drop everything and run away with her in an instant, then Kim has learned nothing.

As far as Kim being "all good," that is not what I was trying to say. She's clearly far from all good. But again, that's not something she needs to be 'forgiven' for, it's just an indication that life is imperfect. Not much of a surprise, I'm afraid, but it has no bearing on whether to start over with her. That's a question of whether her goals and thought processes are a good fit for the MC.

I don't think she expects the MC to do anything. In fact, she seems to me to be acting like she's done the unforgivable already, so I doubt she expects anything to happen. I think she's currently drifting back and forth between uncomfortable with being around the MC given what's happened and slipping into feeling like things were before she left (i.e., some conversations come very easily, like they were still close and never had broken up).

But I don't believe she's under any illusions about the chance of rekindling the old flame, although I'm sure she "hopes against hope" that it might be possible. This might be one of the only parts of her current actions that don't exhibit naïveté to me. Yes, sometimes she pauses and seems to long to be close again, wishing things hadn't happened as they did. But wishing doesn't mean she thinks it can happen.

For my MC, that is a clear no. It may not be fair, but Kim's going to have to live with the disappointment.

Apparently folks are missing my underlined text from before, where I specifically said I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to point out where I think some statements have come across as "she leaves like a bitch and then returns and acts like everything's fine". That's clearly not how things happened.

 

[ename144]

Not sure where you get this idea. It certainly shouldn't have been from my post. I never said he wouldn't be a problem. In fact, I very specifically said she seemed to act like he was a "dormant threat". If he is mollified so he's not currently going to take any severe action, then the threat from him is dormant: he is suspending his potential action. That implies that he absolutely could be a problem at any given time in the future. And to be clear, that wasn't my own opinion of how things actually are, but how I believe Da-Som seemed to think they were.

I get the idea she thinks her father won't be a problem because she's here, hobnobbing with the MC and proceeding with her plans to smuggle her sister out of Korea rather than getting herself the fuck out of Dodge!

Look, I get that Kim supposedly didn't know she'd be working with the MC (though she definitely knew she'd be back in his neighborhood), but as soon as she bumped into him she should have recognized that he was once again in danger. Regardless of whether he wanted to get back together with her, the mere fact that he is present means her father would blame him if and when Kim steps out of line. If Kim's overriding priority was still protecting the MC, she would have called off her plans to bring her sister to America until she either moved away from the MC or figured out some way to get her father onboard with her actions in the long term. She didn't do that. Instead she seized the opportunity to explain herself to the MC while still trying to get Eun-Ji out of Korea.

Moreover, I don't think it's an adequate defense to say she's being upfront with the MC this time by telling him about her father because she isn't actually giving him a realistic way to do anything about that threat. Even if the MC flat out refused to talk to her, they'd still stuck as coworkers and Kim's father is unlikely to believe that is a coincidence. The danger Kim poses to the MC is inevitable whether he knows about it or not. It's better to let him know, sure, but that alone isn't enough. The information Kim is giving the MC isn't actionable this time because, AFAICT, Kim going back to Korea is not on the table. Telling the MC would have been the right move last time, because then he could vote on whether Kim should leave. But this time she hasn't put that up for a vote, so the information would only protect the MC if he was willing to demand Kim leave. That's what it would take to protect him the way she did last time; obviously if the MC insists she stay then he's making an informed and relevant decision and Kim would indeed be doing things differently this time. Unfortunately, Kim has thus far acted as though being here for work will protect the MC from any reprisal, yet her drastic actions last time make it difficult to believe it could be that simple. I see that as a problem.

Now if you want to say Kim is foolish and naive - that she didn't realize a mere job could mollify her father, or that he might act against the MC despite the break up - I think that's a fair argument. It's just that while that would absolve her of guilt, it does nothing to make me sympathetic to her as an LI. Hence my original point: 'forgiving' Kim is the wrong way to frame the debate about her. It's a question of whether you're comfortable enough with her decision making to invest in her as a partner for the MC.

Kim might be somewhat indecisive, I agree. I think "delusional" is too harsh... unless, ofc, you mean "delusional" in the colloquial sense similar to naïveté (i.e., not thinking things through very well). To me, she seems totally naïf — but that's a far cry from being actually crazy. I think she's desperate and that's prevented her from thinking things through clearly. She seems very driven by emotion and not logically-minded when it comes to her father and sister.

No, I mean delusional as in out of touch with reality, but I meant it as an alternative to indecisive rather than a synonym. Personally I don't think she's delusional, but it's a plausible explanation for Kim's actions so I wanted to mention it.

Apparently folks are missing my underlined text from before, where I specifically said I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to point out where I think some statements have come across as "she leaves like a bitch and then returns and acts like everything's fine". That's clearly not how things happened.

I read that part and I understand. I'm not trying to convince you to castigate Kim, either. I'm just trying to say that a) it's entirely possible to think Kim's departure terminated any future relationship without thinking she was ever a bitch, and b) just because Kim is sad doesn't invalidate the observation that her continued presence in the MC's city is a direct contradiction to her stated rationale for leaving him last time. It's entirely fair to attribute that contradiction to benign motivations, but it *is* a contradiction in my books.

I don't want that to come across as accusing Kim of being a bitch or not caring about the MC's well being, but I also think it's disingenuous to say that Kim left the MC for valid reasons AND has valid reasons to reconnect with him now. No matter how well meaning Kim might be, that does not fit the situation we have seen. IMHO, obviously.

 

[Maviarab]

Yeah, IDK. Like I said in the underlined parts of my previous response, I wasn't trying to convince anyone to give her a chance or anything. I just was trying to point out how it came across as very oversimplified in earlier posts.

Not sure why you wrote the first two paragraphs, given what you wrote in the fourth. I think "doesn't seem worried about his draconian retaliation" is a pretty big mischaracterization. She's absolutely seems worried to me, and not just sad / sorry; otherwise, why develop some kind of plan to appease her father? If she didn't worry that he would potentially do something extreme if he thought her life stalled out again, why try to get away? She had already gotten him to loosen up a little by being employed and putting her life "back on track".

And the point is, in fact, what she perceives as something her father could do. Reality doesn't matter, actually, because her perception of it is what's behind her actions. Is she very possibly totally wrong about the actual threat or how things might play out if the threat is real? Absolutely. But her belief or naïveté is the direct cause of how she behaves. Again, not trying to justify anything here. But even if there's no real threat, that doesn't change how she will act; her belief that it's there is what motivates her to do what she does.

Not sure where you get this idea. It certainly shouldn't have been from my post. I never said he wouldn't be a problem. In fact, I very specifically said she seemed to act like he was a "dormant threat". If he is mollified so he's not currently going to take any severe action, then the threat from him is dormant: he is suspending his potential action. That implies that he absolutely could be a problem at any given time in the future. And to be clear, that wasn't my own opinion of how things actually are, but how I believe Da-Som seemed to think they were.


Kim might be somewhat indecisive, I agree. I think "delusional" is too harsh... unless, ofc, you mean "delusional" in the colloquial sense similar to naïveté (i.e., not thinking things through very well). To me, she seems totally naïf — but that's a far cry from being actually crazy. I think she's desperate and that's prevented her from thinking things through clearly. She seems very driven by emotion and not logically-minded when it comes to her father and sister.

I don't think she expects the MC to do anything. In fact, she seems to me to be acting like she's done the unforgivable already, so I doubt she expects anything to happen. I think she's currently drifting back and forth between uncomfortable with being around the MC given what's happened and slipping into feeling like things were before she left (i.e., some conversations come very easily, like they were still close and never had broken up).

But I don't believe she's under any illusions about the chance of rekindling the old flame, although I'm sure she "hopes against hope" that it might be possible. This might be one of the only parts of her current actions that don't exhibit naïveté to me. Yes, sometimes she pauses and seems to long to be close again, wishing things hadn't happened as they did. But wishing doesn't mean she thinks it can happen.

Apparently folks are missing my underlined text from before, where I specifically said I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to point out where I think some statements have come across as "she leaves like a bitch and then returns and acts like everything's fine". That's clearly not how things happened.

View attachment 4687682

You know I usually agree with your psosts on the VN's we follow...but have to say, all you actually succeeded in doing here is showing exactly just how hypocritical and full of shit she is.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

You know I usually agree with your psosts on the VN's we follow...but have to say, all you actually succeeded in doing here is showing exactly just how hypocritical and full of shit she is.

Well, it's a good thing I wasn't trying to convince anybody to take a specific position but just to consider what I believe she thinks as she does things and to remember what all has happened. And I'm glad we have differing views sometimes, and that there aren't two of me in the world.

 

[NebulousShooter]

Well, it's a good thing I wasn't trying to convince anybody to take a specific position but just to consider what I believe she things as she does things and to remember what all has happened. And I'm glad we have differing views sometimes, and that there aren't two of me in the world.

I'm not trying to change your mind or anything

Again, I'm not trying to convince you

I wasn't trying to convince anyone

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

View attachment 4689621

Gee, I wonder why I've kept saying it? Could it be because people respond with, "I see what you're saying, but I don't agree"? I guess thanks? Over and over, folks quote me and seem to try to argue for why they see things differently. You don't need to argue with me. I'm only saying what I believe to be the case. Doesn't mean anyone's wrong here — in how to interpret her actions, in whether the MC should forgive her, etc.

 

[ViperGts151]

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