GrubaKielbasa

Newbie
Nov 13, 2024
21
61
I think it's ok to sideline the porn for the game/story parts. And this game among some others I've played. Would (in MY OPINION) still be good, even if the poon took a backseat.
I think it's ok to sideline the porn for the game/story parts. And this game among some others I've played. Would (in MY OPINION) still be good, even if the poon took a backseat.
I think the decently drawn poon is the only remotely good thing about this choose your own adventure visual novel. Rowan played a significant role in negating a world ending threat but ends up as a peon living in a backwater? That makes zero sense. People like him, even if they aren't treated as equals, are extremely useful to those in power.
Rowan is supposedly a skilled fighter, tactician, and strategist. He has a lot of experience with and success against demons yet he gets immediately bent by a couple of demons less powerful than the one he conquered. When his wife gets kidnapped he does not seek help from any of his allies because he trusts demons to keep their word! IMHO the story sucks. It's like one of those horror movies that has the characters behave as stupidly as possible so the plot can happen.
 

aguy57

Member
Sep 18, 2017
426
1,091
dude, that's the point. taking ages and milking all that patreon money. have you checked their patreon page? they get a lot of money from it per month for doing barely anything at a slow enough pace. they will never want this cashcow to end because ppl keep paying them.
I don't think that's a fair assessment of the situation. There is a difference in the skill set needed to - get a v0.0.1 game off the ground with some idea of a story and get support VS progress the plotline in a way that gets the game to 100% completion in a reasonable time frame with a clear plan.
I feel like what's happening now is that they are incrementally pushing plotlines. Instead by this time, we should have had a well branched story board in a completed state right now, with some mechanics and art evolving to conform to the story, some player choices changing etc.
I think there's also this idea of not compromising anything and minimizing bugs and focusing on the art rather than completing a product - which is good because max focus on shareholder (supporter) objectives is a terrible idea, but at the same time 0 focus on shareholder value also cannot work.
 

EvolutionKills

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2021
1,300
4,419
>Conversation about SoC using long development to milk patreons.

>You said ' Now it's up to each person individually to determine whether or not that's an adequate trade off, but seeing as how the devs are still going strong it seems to be working out for them and their paying audience at least' in regards to the NSFW parts holding the story together.

> I responded ' Just because they're getting paid doesn't mean they're producing quality'.

The conversation has always been about the quality vis a vie the development. We've just been trying to establish what 'quality' means for you, since you said an unbiased eye couldn't consider the work 'bad'. But when I queried the unbiased part, you described a very basic understanding of creative writing.

It doesn't matter how good the current content is, if none of it is forward facing towards the development and the storyline has made barely any movement in the meantime. George R R Martin has continued to create a metric ton of Westeros fiction, companion series, blog posts, but do you know what we still don't have? The Winds of Winter.



I have never said this. You keep saying that this is my argument, because it's the point you want to contend, but I have never said that. What I said that just because SoC clears the bar of the bare minimum that you personally have set before it doesn't mean other players should accept slow or unfocused development.

Stop. Just stop. You keep arguing in circles. By your train of thought the longer George R.R. Martin takes to release The Winds of Winter, the worse his prior work in the series becomes. That's what you are arguing here with SoC. The longer it takes to reach the finish line, somehow magically all of the existing writing and art gets worse over time. So again in one hand you complain that the story isn't concluding and that's explicitly why it's bad ('It doesn't matter how good the current content is, if none of it is forward facing towards the development and the storyline has made barely any movement in the meantime.'), then in the other hand you complain when I point this fact out ('I have never said this. You keep saying that this is my argument, because it's the point you want to contend, but I have never said that.'). Fucking pick a lane already...
 

Birdnman993

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2021
1,407
2,119
aren't y'all tired of complaining about all the same issues every time?? I am not saying one shouldn't complain, but I've read the EXACT same rants 10,000 times at this point: yes, the game is taking ages; yes it's just the first act; yes they made quite a mess in development during the first years; yes, the MC is relatively powerless and humiliated, especially at the beginning; yes, they removed quite a lot stuff (not willingly); and I'm not even discussing personal preferences not fitting the game tags. Etc etc.
After a while, just accept it and move on.
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm going to be very honest with you Baki, every 4 or 5 months or whenever an update comes out I like to take a look at the comments and put my 2 cents worth of thoughts on how this is stalled, it's much more entertaining and even therapeutic for me than the updates they put out, it helps me deal with the trauma of having been made a jerk of for trying to prevent a massacre on the whim of a neanderthal lost in time and a psychopath with airs of superiority, but who is really no better than the neanderthal.

And as I said I only comment at most 2 or 3 times every few months, so I don't overdo it or spam, and I will continue to do so until I finish the game, they abandon the project, or they die or I die, whichever comes first.

The writing in this is fantastic, it makes me FEEL things - unlike most other works.

That said, I still really wanna butcher every person in this game.

Its been a while since ive played, i wonder if theres a chance of going full nuclear and killing everyone (including alexia~), the psycho ending, going full edgelord.

Not counting the ntr, i just cant forgive being enslaved by these red and purple twats.
It would be great if Rowan had balls and wasn't a big bitch, something like gathering everyone at a dinner or celebration and having them all blown to smithereens, like cersei did when she blew up the great sept of baelor with valyrian fire.


But no, it is better to help the two demons because they will do a better job *Rowan proceeds to get penetrated by Andras*. :ROFLMAO:

honestly the only route where Andras actually seems interesting is the RowanXAndras route.
Hey, yes, that's interesting, and if they turned Rowan into a woman they'd make me eat my words, but sadly they're just dreams. :' )
 
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JoeSte91

Member
Apr 12, 2018
252
477
That's what you are arguing here with SoC.
That's what you keep telling me that I'm arguing, because you can't parse English.

you complain that the story isn't concluding and that's explicitly why it's bad
That development is not focused on continuing the story is bad, not that it causes the writing quality to literally become bad. Hence why I said:

"It doesn't matter how good the current content is, if none of it is forward facing towards the development and the storyline has made barely any movement in the meantime."

The writing quality can be immaculate, to the point of being the best written work in the world, but if the story is stalled for years with minimal progress, it's reasonable that people are going to be restless.

The same is true of bad writing, but I choose Winds of Winter as an example specifically because the series is considered well written, but many people have resigned themselves to the fact that it's never seeing the light of day. People are already doing the same with SoC.

SoC shouldn't even be considered that well written as to be compared to A Song of Ice and Fire. By your own description, it hits the basics of English creative writing. But even basic characters with motivations and backgrounds don't matter if your story never progresses, because guess what, you never get to see those motivations realized. It's not that the actual writing becomes poor quality, but how well written it is becomes functionally meaningless, the longer the game stagnates in development of Act 1.

To use ASOIAF to demonstrate again, it doesn't matter how interesting or deep that Jon Snow or Tyrion Lannister are as characters, if the story never concludes and their motivations are never realized. They end up stuck in a stasis of only existing in partially complete works, where people can argue over what might of happened. And if people can lose hope in ASOIAF, then players can certainly lose hope in SoC, because SoC is not half as good as ASOIAF.

The writing is basic. Better than a lot of stories, but it's not worth waiting for since you'll never get to see any of the plot or character motivations resolved. The art is probably the best part about it, but you might as well rip the cgs really. What's left to wait for? It's just people checking in to see if their specific fetish has gotten any attention this time around.
 

Birdnman993

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2021
1,407
2,119
"It doesn't matter how good the current content is, if none of it is forward facing towards the development and the storyline has made barely any movement in the meantime."
It would be so simple, but effective to simply focus on 2 routes, you have a good ending and a bad ending, and you have your ending and now you can develop other routes, develop other plots or characters, or simply add sexual scenes to the point of exhaustion, but you have the story ready, you don't have that stigma attached, you have done your homework and you can go out in the garden and draw furry porn.
 
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monk_56

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
681
2,855
In fairness the writing has gotten worse- but it has nothing to do with the duration of the project or w/e and everything to do with the best writers quitting. All three of them. Rein is the only remaining writer who creates truly great stuff- but unfortunately for me he almost never writes in a kink block or plot I enjoy.
 

k2ren

Member
Jun 13, 2023
256
884
I don't think that's a fair assessment of the situation. There is a difference in the skill set needed to - get a v0.0.1 game off the ground with some idea of a story and get support VS progress the plotline in a way that gets the game to 100% completion in a reasonable time frame with a clear plan.
I feel like what's happening now is that they are incrementally pushing plotlines. Instead by this time, we should have had a well branched story board in a completed state right now, with some mechanics and art evolving to conform to the story, some player choices changing etc.
I think there's also this idea of not compromising anything and minimizing bugs and focusing on the art rather than completing a product - which is good because max focus on shareholder (supporter) objectives is a terrible idea, but at the same time 0 focus on shareholder value also cannot work.
i dont think so. i think they are REALLY comfortable with the pace of the game (aka you could call it lazy). i just briefly went into their discord, the main creator for hours was just arguing politics (he is a far leftist) i wouldn't say that's a time well spent and if i was a subscriber i would prefer the dev im paying that in the middle of the day not arguing politics for 2hours but do something productive. and that was just the 2hours i checked.

so i think they are really comfortable because the money is coming in, there weren't any updates on what they are doing, the dev was too lazy to even write patchnotes here in this thread (i had to do it for them) so they seem to be working very little just to push out enough content just so their subscribers are satisfied.

and i dont think you realize for how long this game has been going. for 9 years. 9. you would expect main storyline to be finished. but they have no incentives to finish it. then the money would stop coming in.
 

Nym85

Active Member
Dec 15, 2018
584
718
unfortunately for us*, I think they will remember this next year. :sleep:
The thing with the AndrasXRowan path was, it was trying to make Andras reasonable and likeable. While in the Jezera path the idea that she can actually be manipulated in any way is just an illusion (she can only be dominated during sex because probably, she finds it hot and is willing to let go for a good fuck) with Andras it did feel that he was starting to look for Rowan's approval for his projects and ideas. So that is completely demolished soon after with Rastedel.

Anyway the route is done and so was my sub for patreon until Act 2. We maybe will get some minor gay content with the fey again or maybe a variation of the AndrasXRowan scene before Astarte Battle for the overlord route. AndrasXRowan scenes usually get 2 CGs while the straight scenes get 6-7. But I get it, every time we get a scene it is the least voted and people complain so much that any gay content is added instead of yet another Alexia scene. They have opportunities to add at least some gay action in the goblin route but beyond a single scene with Tue Row, they didn't really care to add an opportunity for some gay sex there. And the sex is just too damn vanilla. For a dark fantasy VN about depraved demons, there is just not enough kink for me there. Group sex in particular is so lacking and from a gay perspective that is a huge part of scene variation. Honestly I felt their straight writers did better gay scenes than their new gay writer does because they were just nastier and better fitting the theme. I'm gay, I talk with a lot of gay men online who enjoy gay VNs and I don't know anyone who just wants vanilla sex. Unless the main audience for the gay Rowan content is fujoshi ofc which hey, I'd get it, there are so many of them. Personally I'd want Andras to treat Rowan how he treats Alexia and even rougher.
 
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Aenys_Faelin

Member
May 13, 2018
137
453
In fairness the writing has gotten worse- but it has nothing to do with the duration of the project or w/e and everything to do with the best writers quitting. All three of them. Rein is the only remaining writer who creates truly great stuff- but unfortunately for me he almost never writes in a kink block or plot I enjoy.
Wait what? Why the fuck did all the writers quit. This is setting off alarm bells
 

Akabakka

Member
Jul 12, 2023
418
1,007
aren't y'all tired of complaining about all the same issues every time?? I am not saying one shouldn't complain, but I've read the EXACT same rants 10,000 times at this point: yes, the game is taking ages; yes it's just the first act; yes they made quite a mess in development during the first years; yes, the MC is relatively powerless and humiliated, especially at the beginning; yes, they removed quite a lot stuff (not willingly); and I'm not even discussing personal preferences not fitting the game tags. Etc etc.
After a while, just accept it and move on.
You know whats hilarious ? Some people have been complaining about this with years of intervals between the posts, not even on a regular basis like the memes you'd see on the WVM thread. Like it or not it paints a bad picture that nothing has changed... so the repetition seems warranted and valid. You can just move on from reading posts over the years, you know what's coming unless something drastically changes
 
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youraccount69

Forum Fanatic
Donor
Dec 30, 2020
5,127
2,356
SeedsOfChaos-0.4.10
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Adamnuting

New Member
Apr 11, 2024
3
0
If I updated for .4.09 to .4.10 do I have to start all over or I can move my save file to the new version? (I'm on early game and I haven't capture Raeve Keep)
 
3.90 star(s) 183 Votes