Same here, this will be my last message on the subject because, to be honest, it's time to move on.
You're right about the PDA, you mentioned it before and I forgot after all these messages. I have nothing more to add on that point because I understand now that what really bothers you is "the sexual act shown".
Lol, no. If your game has a majority vanilla fanbase, the amount of players lost would be far larger then the new ones you would get.
I completely disagree with this idea that I would have more lost NTR-lovers in this vanilla fanbase than I would if I had made a game that fully committed to NTR.
But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that what you're saying is true—a large part of my vanilla audience are actually NTR-lovers.
That still follows the same exact logic I mentioned before: I would benefit way more from making a game filled with NTR content rather than having a single, isolated scene where an ex-LI is involved in a sexual act with someone other than the MC with "cuckish undertones" like you said.
Why? Because people support the kinks they enjoy.
Let’s say I'm player who love NTR content, and I have two games that I really like equally in terms of story, characters, etc..., but I have to choose which one to financially support.
- Game A openly embraces NTR, and new NTR scenes are released regularly.
- Game B is 99% vanilla, except for one scene that might give me off slight NTR vibes.
In what world would I choose Game B? Every single day, I’d choose a game where my favorite kink is actually represented, Game A will be this game that consistently delivers NTR content in large quantities.
You, who enjoy lesbian content, would you really choose a game with just two or three lesbian sex scenes over a game where you get consistent content with a lesbian FemMC, as you like?
Thats why this type of sneakiness exists in the genre in the first place. To have plausible deniability. 'Its ok, they are husband and wife' 'Its ok MC doesn't care about her' 'Its ok MC and her are not in a committed relationship yet', 'its OK is voyeurism', 'its ok its only at the start of the game and serves as MC motivation', 'its ok because is needed for the plot tm' etc. Plenty of threads, anyone that has been around here has heard all the justifications, loopholes and technicalities.
Then why do devs do it? Either misguided attempt to leach both sides, or they like the beta focused kinks too much and they can't help themselves, but at the same time enjoy the vanilla money even more, so they pretend they make a game for that audience.
What baffles me about your argument is that you genuinely believe that when I included the lesbian scene with the ex-LI, I was strategically planning to attract NTR-lovers while also keeping harem lovers interested.
And I might repeat myself, but why the hell would I have explicitly stated that there would be neither Harem nor NTR if my actual goal was to 'leech both sides'?
If that were really my intent to leech both sides, wouldn’t it have made way more sense to just say nothing?
To keep people in the dark when they download the game? With this logic, I could have NTR-lovers hoping for NTR, and Harem-lovers expecting a harem.
Make the MC walk on two rando hoes going at it then? Of course not, because everyone knows you need the emotional attachment from using a main LI, you are still not ready to admit the why, thats fine. I see we will never get that out of you. As long as everyone stops pretending that this was the only way it had to be done
Why not just two random girls getting caught?
First of all, because it's such a cliché "Oh, I’m walking down a hallway and suddenly hear two girls having sex... hmm, should I take a peek?"
Secondly, it would be even more incoherent within the story to just throw in a scene with two random girls having sex just to justify adding two kinks.
Those two kinks/tags exist because the scene naturally fits into the story—not the other way around, where:
The scene exists just because I wanted to add on two random tags.
(Otherwise, I would have just thrown in two random lesbians having sex for the kink quota
)
Is it kissing, or fucking? Because you keep trying to prove me a hypocrite by using the exact same thing I suggested you to use in my first post?
And yes, there is a huge difference, one is done to give validity to a relationship shift between characters, while a fully rendered/animated sex scene is done, well we already gone over this a hundred times, I doubt you will say the quite part out loud at this point...
The player learns that she’s kissing someone, and if he goes to see, he’ll witness them kissing as things start heating up.
At that point, he can choose whether to stay or leave, leading into the scenarios I mentioned in my last message—about emotional attachment or lack thereof, etc.
(I didn’t want to explain how the scene actually plays out, but you forced me to, because you’re making conclusions about something you haven’t even seen but np)
Lastly you keep using Optional skippable as a deflection even thought it changes nothing, other then being a courtesy to players with irl traumas, maybe. We already established that skippable content of a kink, still gets tagged for that kink so that is pointless to argue. What you also fail to get is that its mere existence changes people's perception of characters.
Strangely, you're telling me that just knowing that a LI has moved on (when it's a sexual act), even without seeing the scene, changes your perception of them.
Yet, at the same time, you’re also saying that simply knowing a LI has moved on through PDA alone is okay for you.
So let me get this straight—when it’s PDA, you have no problem understanding that an LI is now sleeping with someone else, but if you learn it through the existence of a scene that starts with PDA (kissing first, then sex afterward), then suddenly it becomes a problem and changes your perception of the LI?
Let’s agree on one thing—if you think it might change your perception of the LI, you’re not going to risk watching the scene, right?
So, on one hand, a scene with PDA showing that the LI has moved on doesn’t bother you.
But on the other hand, if that same scene has the possibility of leading into a sex act (which you wouldn’t watch to avoid changing your perception), suddenly it becomes a problem?
The only difference between the two is that you’re given the option to see more.
Yet, in both cases, it’s implied that after the PDA, they’re going to have sex.
So what is it that actually bothers you?
(I’ll get to that don't worry)
Let me give you a more extreme example, so you can grasp the concept. A LI acts weirdly about a topic and you give the choice to press her and she confesses about murdering someone. You don't just say, 'It's optional, why did you pick that, its your fault' like you tried to use multiple times with your scene. People can't pretend that now they don't know that LI is a murderer anymore, so if they are starting a run on her route that info has changed the perception of that character. That was another of the points I tried to make ever since my first posts...
Your example about the LI being a murderer—sorry, but it’s completely off-topic.
If, in a game, a skippable choice (meaning an event that exists even if you choose not to see it) reveals that the MC's uncle is actually a piece of shit traitor, then of course, our perception of him changes, and that’s normal.
That’s how storytelling works—we gain new information about characters as the story unfolds.
If I replay the game with a fresh save, knowing that the uncle is a traitor, then even when he’s nice at the start of the game, my perception of him—consciously or unconsciously—will never be the same again.
Does that mean the author shouldn’t have revealed that he was a traitor?
Of course not, because that was part of the story, and that’s how narratives work.
If you finish a story and restart the game without any change in your opinions or perception of the characters, then the story was poorly written, because it means none of the characters ever evolved.
Now, in your case, what actually bothers you is the fact that an ex-LI had sex with someone else—plain and simple.
Even if a random NPC came up to you and said,
"Hey, your ex-LI got a new boyfriend, and they were caught having sex at a party,"
you’d still have an issue with it, even if there was no explicit scene in the game at all.
All this talk about 'just PDA is fine'—I think that’s bullshit, because your perception of the girl would only be affected if you actually saw the act with your own eyes, not just because you read on an F95 thread that such a scene exists.
But hey, that’s just my opinion, just like yours is that I’m "plotting to leech both sides".
I will read if you reply, but I won't answer anymore. I apologize for anyone that didn't already blocked me, and only wanted to discuss the game that had to scroll through all of this clown show! I just got baited by all the 'So, what you are saying is' that had nothing to do with what I was typing about. HF!
This could have avoided becoming a clown show if, instead of trying to impose your vision on someone creating a game, you simply expressed your opinion without dictating how things should be done.
Because coming here and saying "these scenes are a waste of time" or "IMO, devs of this type of game should do this" are useless criticisms even if you were the most respected member of the forum, I wouldn't listen to you on those subjects.
You can think that, but saying it here serves absolutely no purpose.
Meanwhile, everything else—I can listen to criticism about the images, animations, dialogues, character development, scene construction, or even about my so-called "hidden intentions"—I have no problem debating and discussing those.
Because I'd rather fail while staying true to my heart and vision than fail after trying to please everyone, the "main audience", having abandoned what truly motivated me to make this game in the first place.
