4.60 star(s) 354 Votes
Jul 1, 2018
110
342
We have since last week more renders in 6 months than in the last update, the developers said this upcoming update will be similar in size to Chapter 0.5, that was 3600 renders in 11 months of development, which by the way was the size of an update 2 years ago from DPC for being a dik which also took almost 1 year. So the developers are on the right track.

Chapter 0.6 was apparently a bit short with its 1800 renders, but this was the only one out of the 6 chapters that had got a lot of hate and was criticized, all others were fine and nobody complained.

The last update shouldn't be considered as the standard now that the updates take a long time and have a short playing time, you can't tell that at the moment, only Chapter 6 had this problem.

So I would recommend everyone that you wait until 0.7 is released at the beginning of the summer and see how big it is and then you can praise the new update or criticize it if you want.



I would follow the game for 10 years if it's still has the same quality and renders and gives me fun why not, don't forget some games here on this side got released for example in 2019 and are still far from the finish line. Being a DIK probably takes 10 years of development time. Others 6 or 7. A Wife and Mother probably takes as long till Barron Trump is President of the United states. :HideThePain:
Yeah, lots of games have been out for more than 5 years now and are still making much money. Most of the devs are also going for yearly update and it seems like it could take even more time in the future. People should accept that decades long development will be the norm as long as this system is monetary profitable.
 

Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
332
1,846
Yeah, lots of games have been out for more than 5 years now and are still making much money. Most of the devs are also going for yearly update and it seems like it could take even more time in the future. People should accept that decades long development will be the norm as long as this system is monetary profitable.
Imo it's not just money (even if i don't denied that is part of it) But the overall general quality of AVNs keep rising every years, with it come more dev time and there is nothing that can be done for it, because at the end of the day it's just always gonna be 1 or 2 guys behind it. They will never be a full team and real "studio"on this kind of games.

But yes, it's also their work and they are here to make money. Isn't it the case for everyone tho? I don't see the problem as long as it's not a complete scam.
 

Penfold Mole

Engaged Member
Respected User
May 22, 2017
3,266
8,267
Technically. It depends. These are the hallmarks of not having a real argument. Do we like the game they make? Yes. Are they taking too long to make much less? It looks that way. I know some people get off on white knighting and being contrarian but you shouldn't randomly defend people unless you have proof to back up your claims. Lecturing people about general "industry" jargon is not proof. It's weasel words used to try and escape responsibilities. All of that to say what we all really need is a milkshake montage and if that takes several thousand renders and three years no one is allowed to complain!!! Even though it's a waste of time, not what was advertised, taking too long to make, and bears all the hallmarks of a scam. We will have milkshake!!!
I'm not sure where you're coming from, but around here you need proof to blame people. Otherwise it's classified as slander and generally a sign of bad taste. Well, unless you're blaming politicians...
You've just turned the principle of presumption of innocence upside down. :HideThePain:
 

NeroZee

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2018
1,868
5,655
We have since last week more renders in 6 months than in the last update, the developers said this upcoming update will be similar in size to Chapter 0.5, that was 3600 renders in 11 months of development, which by the way was the size of an update 2 years ago from DPC for being a dik which also took almost 1 year. So the developers are on the right track.

Chapter 0.6 was apparently a bit short with its 1800 renders, but this was the only one out of the 6 chapters that had got a lot of hate and was criticized, all others were fine and nobody complained.

The last update shouldn't be considered as the standard now that the updates take a long time and have a short playing time, you can't tell that at the moment, only Chapter 6 had this problem.

So I would recommend everyone that you wait until 0.7 is released at the beginning of the summer and see how big it is and then you can praise the new update or criticize it if you want.



I would follow the game for 10 years if it's still has the same quality and renders and gives me fun why not, don't forget some games here on this side got released for example in 2019 and are still far from the finish line. Being a DIK probably takes 10 years of development time. Others 6 or 7. A Wife and Mother probably takes as long till Barron Trump is President of the United states. :HideThePain:
They should halve the updates, instead of getting 1 update every year, they should do 1800 renders and try to do them in 4 months or so. If not i dont see the point. Why wait another half a year for the update to come out and when it does, wait for the next one to be out in 2027? Great...
 
Last edited:

NebulousShooter

Forum Fanatic
Donor
Oct 24, 2018
4,562
30,347
They should halve the updates, instead of getting 1 update every year, they should do 1800 renders and try to do them in 4 months or so. If not i dont see the point. What wait another half a year for the update to come out and when it does, wait for the next one to be out in 2027? Great...
Their patreon numbers exploded since last 2 long updates. We can cry all we want, that pointed them to the opposite conclusions of what people here desire.

Money talks, simple as...I aswell haven't resubbed since I wanted to see shorted dev cycles, but if they keep going in the opposite direction I will stay a filthy pirate. Not that they will care, they will be fine, I will be fine, it is what it is. :BootyTime:
 
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Sweet Force

Member
May 18, 2017
230
993
Imo it's not just money (even if i don't denied that is part of it) But the overall general quality of AVNs keep rising every years, with it come more dev time and there is nothing that can be done for it, because at the end of the day it's just always gonna be 1 or 2 guys behind it. They will never be a full team and real "studio"on this kind of games.

But yes, it's also their work and they are here to make money. Isn't it the case for everyone tho? I don't see the problem as long as it's not a complete scam.
I have an example of the opposite, OppaiMan, their games seem horrible to me, the crudest expression of a porn game, but I admit that they knew how to take advantage of the money they earned with the first updates, they went from being 2 people to a studio that plans to become the Steam of porn games. In 99.9% of the cases the excuse for not increasing the development team is "only I, the original developer, has the talent, vision, and love, to create this VN, I have tried to hire people but none of them are at my level."

I already accepted that the update will come out in July/August, during the summer for most people here, that's how the industry works currently, even games like Poppy Playtime receive one new chapter per year, although I would propose that people who are currently in summer, like me, receive the update with 1800 renders.

*I will send you the update via private message, don't worry friends, just don't make noise*;)
 
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Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
332
1,846
I have an example of the opposite, OppaiMan, their games seem horrible to me, the crudest expression of a porn game, but I admit that they knew how to take advantage of the money they earned with the first updates, they went from being 2 people to a studio that plans to become the Steam of porn games. In 99.9% of the cases the excuse for not increasing the development team is "only I, the original developer, has the talent, vision, and love, to create this VN, I have tried to hire people but none of them are at my level."

I already accepted that the update will come out in July/August, during the summer for most people here, that's how the industry works currently, even games like Poppy Playtime receive one new chapter per year, although I would propose that people who are currently in summer, like me, receive the update with 1800 renders.

*I will send you the update via private message, don't worry friends, just don't make noise*;)
Of course they will always be exceptions. It doesn’t change 99% of everything else.

Anyway, i don't know what to think of your remark about AVNs devs/creators, saying a dev who doesn't expand and/or create a studio/company, is either lazy or arrogant is a bit much if not, excuse me for saying it, a bit dumb. (even if, again, there are exceptions and probably some of them are like that for sure (and i have some in mind too), it should not be generalize to everyone ever imo )

There are hundreds of reasons for it that as nothing to with money or arrogance. But i'm the lazy one here and i'm not gonna list all reasons that i can think of right now. I'm sure you can figure it out alone ^^
 
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Tony_Soprano

Member
Feb 1, 2022
129
147
Dear developers....just pls send Helen to home, so u don't lose time with this subhuman. Toaster was enough of distraction. U guys, we fans...everybody knows there is no razor thats gonna make a babe from Helen so why bother? To have some laughs with? That can be achieved we literally anyone over there. I am pretty sure, such an upgrade of efficiency would make ur fanbase really appreciate such a move. Thanks for update and good weekend ;)
 

Blue Pasture

Newbie
Jul 18, 2023
65
149
I have an example of the opposite, OppaiMan, their games seem horrible to me, the crudest expression of a porn game, but I admit that they knew how to take advantage of the money they earned with the first updates, they went from being 2 people to a studio that plans to become the Steam of porn games. In 99.9% of the cases the excuse for not increasing the development team is "only I, the original developer, has the talent, vision, and love, to create this VN, I have tried to hire people but none of them are at my level."

I already accepted that the update will come out in July/August, during the summer for most people here, that's how the industry works currently, even games like Poppy Playtime receive one new chapter per year, although I would propose that people who are currently in summer, like me, receive the update with 1800 renders.

*I will send you the update via private message, don't worry friends, just don't make noise*;)
I've seen at least a few cases were the original dev has tried to hire help, and off the top of my head, over half of the hired help flakes and vanishes within a few months. If I had decent-level skills, would I take actual studio pay or get by on a meager slice of the money many creators on here are collecting. The typical income in the US for someone with actual graphic artist skills exceeds what many AVN devs are pulling in from working on these games.

Second, as you note yourself, OppaiMan games aren't great. How much of that is because they just hired whatever people not putting in the greatest work. With many of the AVNs I've gotten, they are something of a passion project, and hiring any random half-assed person would seriously downgrade the quality of the game to OppaiMan or worse. I went thru my collection, and I only have one that is made by OppaiMan themselves, and one or two others written by others but available on the OppaiMan store.

Third, it turns out making these games isn't cheap. For many of the solo dev games I follow, the first bottleneck to overcome isn't having a second person working on it, but the length of time rendering takes.

There are some cloud-hosted rent-by-the hour rendering solutions. I priced one out a while ago based on one dev's detailed account of a delay due to having to rework animations for a single scene. The release had the equivalent of 45-60 days of 24/7 rendering on a dedicated 3090, plus using a second machine for writing, posing, and any other non-rendering work. Found an online calculator for one of the cloud-based services, and it would have ranged from $12k-$15k to do the rendering using their service, albeit it would have been much faster. That dev gets about $5k a month from Patreon. They weren't US-based, so maybe they can survive with a roof over their head on that kind of revenue after all the expenditures that come from making a game, but it doesn't sound great.

If I were to suddenly decide I wanted to make it as an AVN dev, maybe I could get away with just sinking thousands of dollars into finding an unobtainium 5090, but to increase render capacity to anything close to a healthy release cadence and be in need of a second person, I'd want a dual RTX 6000 workstation (just priced one out at $22k) for rendering and a second pc for writing, posing, and compiling. A second, full-time writer/dev or maybe just a dedicated scene composer, I'm not sure two of the dual RTX 6000 machines would keep up for a higher image quality game.

So, configuring a pair of pcs to do the work, buying all the assets, giving up a day job to commit to it full time, I'd need minimum $75k in spare change laying around for startup and to hold over until I got a following, with $20k or more in monthly income within the first few months to produce releases at speed with above-average quality. That amount wouldn't even pay back the startup costs over the first year or two, and wouldn't cover the salary of a second person working on it.

Somehow OppaiMan is drawing almost top-15 AVN numbers on Patreon, while also running a marketplace to sell other's games. I guess they have found a niche people are willing to spend money on, so good for them.
 
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JJ1960

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2017
1,620
5,259
Dear developers....just pls send Helen to home, so u don't lose time with this subhuman. Toaster was enough of distraction. U guys, we fans...everybody knows there is no razor thats gonna make a babe from Helen so why bother? To have some laughs with? That can be achieved we literally anyone over there. I am pretty sure, such an upgrade of efficiency would make ur fanbase really appreciate such a move. Thanks for update and good weekend ;)
Helen is there to keep Mike occupied so he's not hitting on the LI girls.
 
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Sweet Force

Member
May 18, 2017
230
993
Of course they will always be exceptions. It doesn’t change 99% of everything else.

Anyway, i don't know what to think of your remark about AVNs devs/creators, saying a dev who doesn't expand and/or create a studio/company, is either lazy or arrogant is a bit much if not, excuse me for saying it, a bit dumb. (even if, again, there are exceptions and probably some of them are like that for sure (and i have some in mind too), it should not be generalize to everyone ever imo )

There are hundreds of reasons for it that as nothing to with money or arrogance. But i'm the lazy one here and i'm not gonna list all reasons that i can think of right now. I'm sure you can figure it out alone ^^
You called me stupid?, You just made an enemy for life!... I'm lying, I'm joking, you're one of the most reasonable people in the thread, I can't take anything you say the wrong way. Maybe I shouldn't have generalized so much, I'm not saying that all developers should have a shark mentality and that those who don't expand their team are egocentric or lazy, I just find it curious how some developers who have the opportunity to hire people and don't do it use the same explanation: "Only I can make it perfect", and that there are exceptions to the rule that VNs are exclusively 1 or 2 person projects.


I've seen at least a few cases were the original dev has tried to hire help, and off the top of my head, over half of the hired help flakes and vanishes within a few months. If I had decent-level skills, would I take actual studio pay or get by on a meager slice of the money many creators on here are collecting. The typical income in the US for someone with actual graphic artist skills exceeds what many AVN devs are pulling in from working on these games.

Second, as you note yourself, OppaiMan games aren't great. How much of that is because they just hired whatever people not putting in the greatest work. With many of the AVNs I've gotten, they are something of a passion project, and hiring any random half-assed person would seriously downgrade the quality of the game to OppaiMan or worse. I went thru my collection, and I only have one that is made by OppaiMan themselves, and one or two others written by others but available on the OppaiMan store.

Third, it turns out making these games isn't cheap. For many of the solo dev games I follow, the first bottleneck to overcome isn't having a second person working on it, but the length of time rendering takes.

There are some cloud-hosted rent-by-the hour rendering solutions. I priced one out a while ago based on one dev's detailed account of a delay due to having to rework animations for a single scene. The release had the equivalent of 45-60 days of 24/7 rendering on a dedicated 3090, plus using a second machine for writing, posing, and any other non-rendering work. Found an online calculator for one of the cloud-based services, and it would have ranged from $12k-$15k to do the rendering using their service, albeit it would have been much faster. That dev gets about $5k a month from Patreon. They weren't US-based, so maybe they can survive with a roof over their head on that kind of revenue after all the expenditures that come from making a game, but it doesn't sound great.

If I were to suddenly decide I wanted to make it as an AVN dev, maybe I could get away with just sinking thousands of dollars into finding an unobtainium 5090, but to increase render capacity to anything close to a healthy release cadence and be in need of a second person, I'd want a dual RTX 6000 workstation (just priced one out at $22k) for rendering and a second pc for writing, posing, and compiling. A second, full-time writer/dev or maybe just a dedicated scene composer, I'm not sure two of the dual RTX 6000 machines would keep up for a higher image quality game.

So, configuring a pair of pcs to do the work, buying all the assets, giving up a day job to commit to it full time, I'd need minimum $75k in spare change laying around for startup and to hold over until I got a following, with $20k or more in monthly income within the first few months to produce releases at speed with above-average quality. That amount wouldn't even pay back the startup costs over the first year or two, and wouldn't cover the salary of a second person working on it.

Somehow OppaiMan is drawing almost top-15 AVN numbers on Patreon, while also running a marketplace to sell other's games. I guess they have found a niche people are willing to spend money on, so good for them.
I will tell you that I accept what you wrote, but I want to add a fact to the equation, they are from Brazil, the salaries are not the same, I don't know how much the minimum wage is in the US, but what they earn on patreon (not counting steam) exceeds 127 minimum wages in their country. You don't have to think only about how much they earn but add the country of origin of the developers, maybe in the United States if you earn 2000 dollars you don't make ends meet, but if you earn 2000 dollars being a developer from, for example, Argentina, you are already earning more money than 80% of the families in the country, OppaiMan does not hire programmers or artists from the US, they hire people from Brazil, therefore their salary is cheaper. It is better not to talk about the subject anymore because they will delete our comments.

I just want to add that we have to be patient, this update will be the best of all, I assure you, Eve's monthly special is similar to Mia's before her sexual content comes to the game, it's horrible to have to wait 200 days (approximately what's left for 0.7), but you have to have faith in God, hallelujah my brothers. And if they're going to include Helen as a possible monthly special, we're all doomed, include Mike too, nothing matters anymore.
 

Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
332
1,846
You called me stupid?, You just made an enemy for life!... I'm lying, I'm joking, you're one of the most reasonable people in the thread, I can't take anything you say the wrong way. Maybe I shouldn't have generalized so much, I'm not saying that all developers should have a shark mentality and that those who don't expand their team are egocentric or lazy, I just find it curious how some developers who have the opportunity to hire people and don't do it use the same explanation: "Only I can make it perfect", and that there are exceptions to the rule that VNs are exclusively 1 or 2 person projects.
Yes please don't take it the wrong way, i don't think that you are, just this sentence. I honestly struggle for 10 min as whether or not i would write the word "dumb"and felt bad doing it. But yeah i say plenty of dumb stuff all the time too, it happen, so i figured that it would be fine and hope you don't take offence on it.

Anyway, i try to be impartial, logic and reasonable even tho i'm obviously in the "supporter camp", it's so sweetforce of you to notice :p

Yes i wrote this sentence only to make this dumb joke.
 
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Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
332
1,846
How sure are you that we will have to wait 200 more days for 0.7? I was expecting 2 months tops. They already gave us a preview render of Ms. Hill spraying us with some liquid a couple status updates ago.
Devs said they wanted the update to be closer to 0.5 numbers, so yeah, probably 6 more months at the very least . Peeps who are saying "early summer" are very very optimistic imo, feels more like late summer/September to me.
 
4.60 star(s) 354 Votes