Pleevy

Member
Nov 23, 2024
112
332
Just as a side note: I don't think there was ever huge pushback community wise against gay content. Only Aval0nx seemed to get pretty frustrated about being asked to include more Tails content, but that has less to do with it being gay but more to do with him quickly getting frustrated about being asked multiple times about anything XD

Also not really surprising that a large group enjoys seeing at least some Tails vs Sonic - apparently only 30-40% or so of furries identify as 100% exclusively straight.

Especially with open ended games like these including nonstraight or fetish content is pretty easily done in an unobtrusive manner - as long as you hint clearly where a scene is going to lead to but give players an 'out' if they're not interested in seeing that kind of stuff, I've never seen anyone complain.

Like, if people don't wanna bang Tails they're unlikely to give him a call anyway.
And as long as the darker parts are hidden behind low morality stat, it's not like anyone will accidentally stumble on it.

That's my view at least.
Ah...well....see....I was never part of the community...."back in the day," and so my exposure to anything from it is severely limited. The in-game 4th-wall-breaking commentary between Sonic and Knuckles was the main point I saw relating to it, and it specifically indicated that the BSC community wanted to dial it back...So in the absence of anything to the contrary...you can see why I would believe as I did. That said...I already alluded to the possibility of more M/M content, it might not make it into the next iteration, I still have some incomplete 3some content to finish before adding the new stuff though I have copied all the text form the suggestions that I am aware of in this thread, some of which have been added implemented and some which directly relate to what we are talking about...So...if there are no objections...:devilish:

But I suppose I should stick to the plan and help get it to a complete status before going to that level of new content...especially since we would also have no imagery and so there would have to be re-coding after the fact to add new graphics for nay of those scenes too...o_O
My personal suggestion is "why not both?". Design each possible cheat to unlock permanently (not just for current playthrough) when you've whatever it is that would make sense. But ALSO include a 'unlock all cheats now' button
And put that button behind a paywall...:cool:
 

Silvii

Newbie
Nov 15, 2023
27
50
What is cub sitting
Cub sitting is a game currently in development by the amazing MrFluffums that is similar in structure to BSC but with some distinct differences. You can find it as their signature or in their "About" section in their profile.
Quoting them below to assist you in finding their account
VvVvVvVvV
Always glad when Leo gets some love! Because he's a real pain in the butt to code for - especially in generic events where you now have to keep all pronouns dynamic just in case someone picks him. Would've been easier with just 5 chicks instead of 4 + 1 token shota, but meh. His cute butt is more than worth the pain in my butt, if you ask me :p
Also his cute butt absolutely is worth it all~
 
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FoxyTails

Member
Feb 9, 2020
249
523
The in-game 4th-wall-breaking commentary between Sonic and Knuckles was the main point I saw relating to it, and it specifically indicated that the BSC community wanted to dial it back...So in the absence of anything to the contrary...you can see why I would believe as I did. That said...I already alluded to the possibility of more M/M content, it might not make it into the next iteration, I still have some incomplete 3some content to finish before adding the new stuff though I have copied all the text form the suggestions that I am aware of in this thread, some of which have been added implemented and some which directly relate to what we are talking about...So...if there are no objections...:devilish:
I have been around since Avalon first release & tbh I've always hated the original Tails rape event, & while your version has toned it down a bit I still think that it could be still a little too harsh for a (very young) 'first timer' in a M/M relationship, especially since Tails is meant to be only a couple of years older than Cream

I think most people think of Domination being hardcore/rough sex/punishment but there are other forms (to my knowledge) of a 'Master/slave' relationship.

I admit I did have my own plans for Tails, never actually posted anything though. In my route I imagined
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Pleevy

Member
Nov 23, 2024
112
332
Also his cute butt absolutely is worth it all~
I need to get me a cute butt to defil-erm...I mean...you saw nothing! *Poof*

I have been around since Avalon first release & tbh I've always hated the original Tails rape event, & while your version has toned it down a bit I still think that it could be still a little too harsh for a (very young) 'first timer' in a M/M relationship, especially since Tails is meant to be only a couple of years older than Cream

I think most people think of Domination being hardcore/rough sex/punishment but there are other forms (to my knowledge) of a 'Master/slave' relationship.

I admit I did have my own plans for Tails, never actually posted anything though.
Which of the many rabbit holes would you like to go down? One thing I have constantly brought up is intent. And in this case, we have a blending of "Original" intent, by the original creators, and then of that of anyone who added since, whether the same or not, and then our own, both in view of the project as a whole, and personally. Personally, I have no agenda myself. When this all began, I did not expect to be involved with it...but here we are...I am in the new credits. Now, I personally enjoy the thought of a sexualized Tails in this context...irrespective of whether it is sub/dom or not...though for some reason, it "feels 'right' " for him to be submissive.

Now, the somewhere along the line, either in the original creation or after but before my time here, the scene in question was put in the game. there was some intent to it...I do not claim to know what that was, but there was a reason (even if not a "good" one)...and if we as those working on the game want to maintain the spirit/intent of the content, then changing it is technically a "bad/wrong" thing. If, instead we came into it with the intent of taking the base premise and remaking it "in our image" then that is another story altogether.

That said, I agree with you personally in disliking the original event because of the rape aspect. Remaking it, while attempting to maintain its nebulous purpose/intent was what led to my current iteration. I call it CNC, (Bearing in mind my own limited exposure to it or most other aspects of alternative sexual practices including but not limited to BDSM) and thought/felt that I implied sort of a consent-"subtext" while still giving it the NC (Lets call it heavy/aggressive domination) aspect that is likely the intent...partially potentially alluded to by the code using the term dom in relation to triggers for the scene. (Whoever wrote it...did not use the word rape, despite that being clearly what it was content wise.) Thus, the re-write I did is still more "hardcore/rough/punishment," believed to be staying in tune with earlier intent, while still being "better."

And there are absolutely more forms. This is likely just the form most visible/seen, and thus able to be reproduced by someone *cough me cough* who has never been in or seen the depths of other aspects, despite knowing of/believing in their existence. The intent was not to pigeonhole Sub/Dom relationships into that, just using that iteration of it for this part keeping in mind previous intent.

Honestly, especially in the context of the whole project, thinking of Tails in terms of age was nowhere on my mind. The age thing in a project like this is murky at best. It is the aspect that most makes me feel awkward about the whole thing...even moreso surprisingly than all but the rape aspect of the above discussed content...and it seems silly to imply that the age is more relevant in a M/M relationship than any other...I suspect you will have to elaborate on that if you want it to have the impact you probably intended. First time/level of the scene...I can accept that...but *points to next paragraph*

Then, (At the risk of sounding defensive) we also should bear in mind, that Tails is (at this point) a side character. We do not have the time/structure in the game in its current form to build the depth of a relationship, Sub/Dom or otherwise, (I suppose I could awkwardly write block of exposition telling the story of how we reached this point...) that we might with Cream. Somewhere I made the comment that it is not Babysitting Tails, nor have their been calls for that for this project. In a "spin-off" or alternate reality...I would be in total agreement with you that the scene alone is "too much" and more development between the characters would be warranted, but in context of this project...and (kicks the dead horse) assumed intent, the current iteration was what was produced.

Now, additionally...keep in mind...the overall goal, as I understand it of those working on this...is to "finish it" basically in its current form. Fill in the gaps, fix the codes, write in what was started but not finished to some degree. (original intent again-that poor horse) This could lead to the argument that since the Tails scene was effectively finished, that we should have left it alone completely. I disagree with that enough that I wrote something else...I wont claim to be "proud of it" but can "defend" the reasoning of it. If someone out there is a better writer/knows more about the sexuality aspects I do not...feel free to replace it/me.

Now, all THAT said...I will add your suggestion to my running log of new content/potential update content, as if I have my way, (Intent, this time mine) we WILL see more of Tails and there will be more, let's call it "nice" options, and more "naughty" options including but not limited to as far as the CNC level it is currently at. Looking at the code (at least in the upcoming patch) you will be able to see my hidden dev notes/thoughts if you are willing to jump into the code.

In closing, (*Buries the horse*) if my thoughts on intent are wrong, and everyone else is looking at a much more varied remake...let me know...I can go either way, or stop altogether.
 

Pleevy

Member
Nov 23, 2024
112
332
Now...after that (likely) TL;DR (for most people) Text Wall...I present:
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stormtiger

Newbie
Mar 22, 2020
80
52
In a future update/upgrade of this I would love to see a version where Sonic is training Cream to be his Submissive and Cream sees Sonic as her Master. This would be a good idea for an alternate story line in a NG+ play where Sonic had been Cream's babysitter before for the day, but this is the first time he watched her overnight and for so long.
 
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Shade900

Newbie
Jul 25, 2022
40
43
For cubsitting simulator I just implemented cheats as an antifrustration feature for some folks, with a small reward if you finish the game without cheats to reward people who play 'fair'. It makes it easier to balance the game to be fun - if people consider it too grindy they can always cheat :p

Although I also like your idea. I would personally use persistant variables if Xaverion decides to go this way (Ren'Py has special variables that persist across games), so that you only need to unlock them once, and then you have them unlocked for all future playthroughs. Sort of a newgame+.
Very good game
 
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Shade900

Newbie
Jul 25, 2022
40
43
Cub sitting is a game currently in development by the amazing MrFluffums that is similar in structure to BSC but with some distinct differences. You can find it as their signature or in their "About" section in their profile.
Quoting them below to assist you in finding their account
VvVvVvVvV

Also his cute butt absolutely is worth it all~
I like the game I can't wait for the next update
 
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Shade900

Newbie
Jul 25, 2022
40
43
For cubsitting simulator I just implemented cheats as an antifrustration feature for some folks, with a small reward if you finish the game without cheats to reward people who play 'fair'. It makes it easier to balance the game to be fun - if people consider it too grindy they can always cheat :p

Although I also like your idea. I would personally use persistant variables if Xaverion decides to go this way (Ren'Py has special variables that persist across games), so that you only need to unlock them once, and then you have them unlocked for all future playthroughs. Sort of a newgame+.
How long is this game
 
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Shade900

Newbie
Jul 25, 2022
40
43
For cubsitting simulator I just implemented cheats as an antifrustration feature for some folks, with a small reward if you finish the game without cheats to reward people who play 'fair'. It makes it easier to balance the game to be fun - if people consider it too grindy they can always cheat :p

Although I also like your idea. I would personally use persistant variables if Xaverion decides to go this way (Ren'Py has special variables that persist across games), so that you only need to unlock them once, and then you have them unlocked for all future playthroughs. Sort of a newgame+.
What are the cheats
 
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MrFluffums

Newbie
Dec 23, 2024
46
143
What I personally feel like is that adding is always less controversial than replacing - so what I mean is that if you give people the choice how they want to treat Tails, you can have the original option, the CNC option of yours Pleevy, and maybe Foxy's idea if anyone feels inspired to write it :p in that way, if you want the original, darker route, great! It's still available. If you want less dark, sure, your choice.

But if there's one thing clear it's that I'm a nostalgia addict who loves new stuff but also likes it sometimes to see the derpy bunny and play scenes as they were in the original, so obviously I'm biased :p

shade900, great to hear you like my game ^^ but if you wanna discuss it further or have questions about it, I suggest you either send me a message on inkbunny or wait less than two days until I create a dedicated thread for v0.3.0 on this forum, then we don't derail this discussion.

Edit: shit, I accidentally tagged a random user named Shade instead of shade900. Sorry!
 

Shade900

Newbie
Jul 25, 2022
40
43
What I personally feel like is that adding is always less controversial than replacing - so what I mean is that if you give people the choice how they want to treat Tails, you can have the original option, the CNC option of yours Pleevy, and maybe Foxy's idea if anyone feels inspired to write it :p in that way, if you want the original, darker route, great! It's still available. If you want less dark, sure, your choice.

But if there's one thing clear it's that I'm a nostalgia addict who loves new stuff but also likes it sometimes to see the derpy bunny and play scenes as they were in the original, so obviously I'm biased :p

shade900, great to hear you like my game ^^ but if you wanna discuss it further or have questions about it, I suggest you either send me a message on inkbunny or wait less than two days until I create a dedicated thread for v0.3.0 on this forum, then we don't derail this discussion.

Edit: shit, I accidentally tagged a random user named Shade instead of shade900. Sorry!
I thought the guy remaking the game wasn't going to get rid of the tails scene and okay
 
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Shade900

Newbie
Jul 25, 2022
40
43
What I personally feel like is that adding is always less controversial than replacing - so what I mean is that if you give people the choice how they want to treat Tails, you can have the original option, the CNC option of yours Pleevy, and maybe Foxy's idea if anyone feels inspired to write it :p in that way, if you want the original, darker route, great! It's still available. If you want less dark, sure, your choice.

But if there's one thing clear it's that I'm a nostalgia addict who loves new stuff but also likes it sometimes to see the derpy bunny and play scenes as they were in the original, so obviously I'm biased :p

shade900, great to hear you like my game ^^ but if you wanna discuss it further or have questions about it, I suggest you either send me a message on inkbunny or wait less than two days until I create a dedicated thread for v0.3.0 on this forum, then we don't derail this discussion.

Edit: shit, I accidentally tagged a random user named Shade instead of shade900. Sorry!
I texted you on the main game btw
 
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sosuke1399

Newbie
May 8, 2021
51
24
What I personally feel like is that adding is always less controversial than replacing - so what I mean is that if you give people the choice how they want to treat Tails, you can have the original option, the CNC option of yours Pleevy, and maybe Foxy's idea if anyone feels inspired to write it :p in that way, if you want the original, darker route, great! It's still available. If you want less dark, sure, your choice.

But if there's one thing clear it's that I'm a nostalgia addict who loves new stuff but also likes it sometimes to see the derpy bunny and play scenes as they were in the original, so obviously I'm biased :p

shade900, great to hear you like my game ^^ but if you wanna discuss it further or have questions about it, I suggest you either send me a message on inkbunny or wait less than two days until I create a dedicated thread for v0.3.0 on this forum, then we don't derail this discussion.

Edit: shit, I accidentally tagged a random user named Shade instead of shade900. Sorry!
Personally, nothing against it. As long as I can see the image, it doesn't matter...
 
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Pleevy

Member
Nov 23, 2024
112
332
In a future update/upgrade of this I would love to see a version where Sonic is training Cream to be his Submissive and Cream sees Sonic as her Master. This would be a good idea for an alternate story line in a NG+ play where Sonic had been Cream's babysitter before for the day, but this is the first time he watched her overnight and for so long.
Hmm...That will take some thought and brainstorming. Its one thing to add a Dom/Sub arc for a side character, as that only has to affect the code for that character and their interactions which are not integrated EVRYwhere in the rest of the code. I was able to do many things editing just one code file, which minimizes the effects of the overall game outside of its content (in case i mess things up.) Doing the same for a fully developed character with many arc/options etc. already in existence would likely become a very large undertaking. No promises...though I was pushing for some more options emerging from the Hand caught in the cookie jar event relating initially to spanking...there might be some potential to use that or something like it to create a new arc for that KIND of content.
What I personally feel like is that adding is always less controversial than replacing - so what I mean is that if you give people the choice how they want to treat Tails, you can have the original option, the CNC option of yours Pleevy, and maybe Foxy's idea if anyone feels inspired to write it :p in that way, if you want the original, darker route, great! It's still available. If you want less dark, sure, your choice.

But if there's one thing clear it's that I'm a nostalgia addict who loves new stuff but also likes it sometimes to see the derpy bunny and play scenes as they were in the original, so obviously I'm biased :p
I can see the logic there, and am generally on board with more Tails. And I have been pronounced writer...so I might just have to live up to it.I dont wnat to make promises though...I wouldn't want to do that and then not deliver.

We do need to "finish the core game" before we go too hogwild adding new stuff. Even the stuff I have "Added" (In quotes because it was already referenced in the game via pending Achievements, etc, and it was listed as will expand or the like) has been keeping that in mind. Updating Tails route and Knuckles Route to be less Rape-y was more of a "moral" stance that I took since I was the one making the changes, when no one else has stepped up to do it.
shade900, great to hear you like my game ^^ but if you wanna discuss it further or have questions about it, I suggest you either send me a message on inkbunny or wait less than two days until I create a dedicated thread for v0.3.0 on this forum, then we don't derail this discussion.
Edit: shit, I accidentally tagged a random user named Shade instead of shade900. Sorry!
Also...I suggest practicing more than just a single line comment multiple times in a row. Just clutters the board...You don't have to go novella like I do...but this isn't twitter. ^_^;
 
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Pleevy

Member
Nov 23, 2024
112
332
I did also have an epiphany...With some loony person writing "new" content in spots that were missing content...SWP and Novaca have a new challenge in image creation...new content they have never seen before, that has no past iteration artwork to be based off of...and might not even make full sense (for imagery or at all) outside the creator's brain...We should probably consolidate the "new stuff" in an easy to read format...and supply it to you...unless you want to play through the game as many times as you have to to encounter the content...or are comfortable pouring over the code for it.

Unfortunately for the loony person, they do not get to experience the new...since it all came from their own twisted brain...:cry:...however...Looking forward to the text being brought to life in image format might still bring pizzaz! :love:
 
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DoorFive

Active Member
Dec 3, 2019
532
632
I did also have an epiphany...With some loony person writing "new" content in spots that were missing content...SWP and Novaca have a new challenge in image creation...new content they have never seen before, that has no past iteration artwork to be based off of...and might not even make full sense (for imagery or at all) outside the creator's brain...We should probably consolidate the "new stuff" in an easy to read format...and supply it to you...unless you want to play through the game as many times as you have to to encounter the content...or are comfortable pouring over the code for it.

Unfortunately for the loony person, they do not get to experience the new...since it all came from their own twisted brain...:cry:...however...Looking forward to the text being brought to life in image format might still bring pizzaz! :love:
That loony person isn't me is it? I'm half or more asleep, did I suddenly have an obligation I cannot remember...uhh...
Im going towake up and be all like, woah. This is a funny dream
 

FoxyTails

Member
Feb 9, 2020
249
523
Pleevy: Whoa a lot of posts to go through, but yeah - I've always said we should 'finish the game first before adding new content', so keeping the original events (although modified) should be top priority - thanks for reminding me....

Still, looking back at my post (& I noticed in some other Tails events where Cream & he are in room chatting on how good Sonic is as a babysitter) my 'route' seems more 'Sonic Good Guy' approach rather than 'Sonic's dark side'...

EDIT: @McFluffins ,I think a single line like 'if moral>=xx' around L996 in guests.rpy & a bit of text could be added to make a Sonics 'Good guy to Tails' should suffice. I might even have a try myself with Pleevy's patch & see how it goes just to see how it looks

EDIT 2: Hmm maybe not Moral>=. looking back you need either rwc>=400, moral<-7 or able to remove dress to even get the bikini top, which leads to Tail in vanilla room... This is harder to figure out than I thought


Maybe in future (AFTER the completed game of course) there could also be Sonic moral>=0 dom route (& yes, I do have an idea for a Tails/Cream event instead of the Sonic babysitter chat - I'll post the general idea here just for possible future reference/idea)

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Anyway, onto 'finishing the game'.
Just to check on what's 'not finished' in the original game - Currently to my knowledge the 'missing parts' are
- Threesome w/Cream & Sally (will expand)
- Threesome w/Cream & Knuckles (will expand)
- Threesome w/Cream & Marine (in dev)
- No use for 'collectabes' (Special underwear/Dress etc)
- Myterious event + Use of car to Station Square to see Vanilla (after a call to her once you get business card)

Although currently there's a scene for Sally ('get_naked' & 'Sally_knows)' with a line for 'This scene IS getting expanded in future' so technically there's an event present already... and for Knuckles in Pleevy's 'patch file'

Pleevy - FYI can't find Knux_3way flag trigger in your patch - accidentally missing ??
 
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Pleevy

Member
Nov 23, 2024
112
332
Pleevy: Whoa a lot of posts to go through, but yeah - I've always said we should 'finish the game first before adding new content', so keeping the original events (although modified) should be top priority - thanks for reminding me....
Just keeping everyone grounded. The first goal is not to try to give everyone everything they want...but rather to finish the game. Then we start pandering a bit. :p
Still, looking back at my post (& I noticed in some other Tails events where Cream & he are in room chatting on how good Sonic is as a babysitter) my 'route' seems more 'Sonic Good Guy' approach rather than 'Sonic's dark side'...

EDIT: @McFluffins ,I think a single line like 'if moral>=xx' around L996 in guests.rpy & a bit of text could be added to make a Sonics 'Good guy to Tails' should suffice. I might even have a try myself with Pleevy's patch & see how it goes just to see how it looks

EDIT 2: Hmm maybe not Moral>=. looking back you need either rwc>=400, moral<-7 or able to remove dress to even get the bikini top, which leads to Tail in vanilla room... This is harder to figure out than I thought
We might want to have a general discussion as a "team" about what stats are used for what (in the game code world) in some cases...as they may not be the best representations ALL the time. They tend to be functional (Which is top priority when i added things, with "making perfect sense" or being intuitive as a secondary thought) in the context of the Stats as a constant, even if not ideal, but they can be changed...preferably with some consistency.
Maybe in future (AFTER the completed game of course) there could also be Sonic moral>=0 dom route (& yes, I do have an idea for a Tails/Cream event instead of the Sonic babysitter chat - I'll post the general idea here just for possible future reference/idea)
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Adding your ideas to my running list. It wont be seen in the current coded notes this time around, but it will be in my notes which I am using and/or will pass on if I am replaced. For adding more content, the tails triggers will be revised...as you need him to be able to come back and currently angry/etc shifts the call reactions (a file I have not touched yet) precluding additional content like these suggestions. In fact....since i had the code open to look for your other reference...I see that the angry trigger is set in an instance even I did not mean it to by me trying to not have too many copies of almost the same code...I will fix that as well in the NEXT iteration. Also...other suggestions (I grabbed them all from the list in your signature some time back) also already include more ideas for tails content relating to the non-pool options as well...so I see it as very likely...as I admittedly want some more foxyplaytime. ;)
Anyway, onto 'finishing the game'.
Just to check on what's 'not finished' in the original game - Currently to my knowledge the 'missing parts' are
- Threesome w/Cream & Sally (will expand)
- Threesome w/Cream & Knuckles (will expand)
- Threesome w/Cream & Marine (in dev)
- No use for 'collectabes' (Special underwear/Dress etc)
- Myterious event + Use of car to Station Square to see Vanilla (after a call to her once you get business card)

Although currently there's a scene for Sally ('get_naked' & 'Sally_knows)' with a line for 'This scene IS getting expanded in future' so technically there's an event present already... and for Knuckles in Pleevy's 'patch file'
Which version are you looking at/referencing? I JUST sent the code master my latest work, which includes 2/5 of your list. Marine content is in a different file as the guests file is dependent on who you can currently CALL to come over, not the random show-up. Since I have confined my work (so far) to just the one file, that means I have done nothing toward that...not that It cannot be done or added there...just there is nothing in that file to lead me to do it on its own, where the other unfinished content is at least referenced therein. (Read: Progress toward 'finishing' the game.)...And I may have left reference code in the latest version that half touches on number 5...it will make sense when I finish it... So...I am going to say I have done (In a baseline format at least) half of that work. I have, however not touched the file that has the '(will expand)' references in the journal so that won't currently reflect any change unless someone edits that.
Pleevy - FYI can't find Knux_3way flag trigger in your patch - accidentally missing ??
Pretty sure it did not exist in the "original code" - Read in the old Knuckles Threesome writeup (And by that I mean the first iteration when I started actually looking at/fondling/playing with the code) as I did not add any of flag triggers for the others as memory serves. (I might have copied them and pasted them in a similar scene with more options, but not actually added one into anything fresh...if that makes sense.) Easy fix, and I'll do it and re-send my latest patch to the code master.
Edit: Added into the current version I have provided to be included in the next "core" update Someone will still have to update the code in the file that governs the journal etc though. I still have not touched that...yet.
 
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