You can't watch it since it only occurs when you are in a relationship with them, BOTH OF THEM. When is your scene triggering, what are the characters' relationship with the MC at the time the scene takes place? When is that info rubbed into the players face given to the MC? Like I said, opposite.
I say romance players don't want and see details about the romance option's past and current non MC sex life,
So, following your logic, the tent scene with M&J should bother you?
It’s a past detail about two romance options, where we see them kissing for minutes, almost completely naked.
You love using the phrase 'rubbed into the player’s face'—so why isn’t this scene considered as such? I can’t avoid it, and I’m shown the romantic past of two potential LIs.
If you're honest with yourself, you know you've been criticizing this from the very beginning in my thread.
But you won’t be. And even if I told you that the scene we’re discussing in my game was just the LI kissing another girl without going further, you’d still find something to complain about.
I say romance players don't want and see details about the romance option's past and current non MC sex life, he pretends I want virgins. Like...what is there to say. I'm too bored to quote every single line that you purposely misinterpret the same way, just so you can pretend you have an argument. The post is too long on its own, but anyone can just go back and read every time you quote me...
Yet you did the same thing. Should I remind you that you compared voyeurism scenes to being designed for cuckolds and said that a game without them "doesn't rub it into players' faces" scenes like that :
maybe beacuse you don't have 'voyeurism' scenes with them, or find sex tapes, or photos, or read their thoughts comparing dick taste between clients, aka that dev doesn't rub it into players faces. Alien concept, I am telling you, a game designed for a vanilla audience not pissing in their faces and telling them its rain.
But this is not the most important part—the most important thing is the reason this debate exists, the scene.
Why does the scene need to exist? Like we already ran down multiple posts ago, its clearly not to portray her as moving on because you don't need sex scenes to do that. You just don't. If that is the only way you could come up with to relay that info to the player then you have bigger problems as a writer than dealing with my 'trolling'
Answer me this, since you keep pretending it has nothing to do with
a) punishing the player,
b) appealing to that type of players.
Keep in mind, that per your own admission the guys that can get the scene are people that didn't want the LI in the first place. Make it make sense...
I'm taking a bet on b with a side dish of answer c) dev finds that type of scene hot and instead of owning it, he tries to defend it the the most hilarious ways, downplaying, evading, strawmanning, using examples that directly contradict his claims, calling me names
Neither Answer A nor Answer B.
Why isn't it Answer A?
If I wanted to 'punish the players,' I would have forced them to watch the scene, telling them that they were assholes and that they shouldn’t have made those choices. But that’s not the case, because the people who would go to see this scene are either sexually interested in watching two girls have sex or are into the voyeurism aspect of the scene (players who have the voyeur kink).
And if some people feel punished by watching such a scene and still choose to watch it of their own free will, then they’re just masochists.
Why isn't it Answer B?
Because I would have to be incredibly stupid to explicitly state that NTR will not be in the game, while secretly trying to attract players who want to feel cuckolded with a random lesbian scene buried deep in the game.
If I truly wanted to appeal to NTR players, wouldn’t I have just added actual NTR scenes from the start? Don’t you think?
"Keep in mind, that per your own admission the guys that can get the scene are people that didn't want the LI in the first place. Make it make sense..."
It would be even worse if I decided to make this scene appear in the path of players who never rejected her or chose to reject her properly.
How can players who never wanted the LI in the first place feel cuckolded when... if they harshly rejected her early on, it means they had zero emotional attachment to her, right?
My dude, Its the seeing. The same info can be portrayed in less 'controversial' way. People can infer things, unless you are suggesting you think your audience is too dumb and needs you to draw it in the sandbox for them to understand?
You're right, just mentioning that this LI is now in a relationship with a girl is enough for players to understand what that means.
But regarding the question "Why have this scene then, if you could just have an NPC say that she’s now in a relationship with a girl?", I’ll answer that just below.
Its the rendering of unnecessary filler scenes that actually diminishes the number of people interested in that girl. Its not like you made the scene so you make the player dislike her, she is still a LI of your game. Its an illogical narrative decision, unless and we are back to that, its done to appeal to a certain crowd.
Why this scene?
Like all the other sex scenes, because it’s hot, and the way the branching works ensures that a player who chooses to watch it is:
Someone who enjoys voyeurism and/or lesbian content and who finds that this LI is attractive/hot (or not) but has never had any emotional attachment to her.
How does it target this kind of player?
It’s all in the conditions that trigger the scene.
As I’ve said, this scene only happens if you treated the girl like an asshole. And if you did that when you could have treated her well, then logically, you were never emotionally attached to her in the first place.
But, let’s consider the 'deviant' cases—I see two of them.
1. The player doesn’t like the LI but still refuses to let her get close to anyone other than the MC, even though he hate and she’s no longer an LI at that point.
If you fall into this category, that’s a (big) different issue, and I address it at the end of my message.
2. The player intentionally mistreated the girl because it "fit" the role they wanted for the MC in the story, but in reality, they’re still emotionally attached to her.
Solution to avoid hurting this type of player?
→ Give them the choice to watch or not.
At the moment the player learns that the ex-LI is upstairs kissing another girl, they can choose:
Watch the scene, fully aware that it involves the ex-LI they still have feelings for.
or
Ignore the scene, signaling that they have moved on from her.
Among these players, those who choose Option 2 are the ones who could feel hurt by seeing such a scene.
Among these players, those who choose Option 1 it fall into two categories:
- They know they are still attached to the girl, but also know that watching the scene won't bother them and that they might even find it hot. (Btw, no jealousy, no cuck, so not NTR for those players)
- They know the scene will hurt them emotionally, make them feel like cuck, but choose to watch it anyway.
And this last group (2) is the only case where you could say it might appeal to the people you claim I’m trying to target—NTR lovers.
So now, let’s address the root of the issue, the claim that I’m trying to attract NTR-lovers.
I'm going to use exaggerated numbers on purpose, just to ensure I’m not biased in writing my argument.
Let’s imagine that out of 10,000 players who play the game:
- 5,000 players decide to harshly reject this LI.
Among them, we have two groups:
- People A (2,500 players) – They have no emotional attachment to the LI.
- People B (2,500 players) – They still have feelings for the LI.
People A are in no way concerned by NTR because, as you rightly said, the goal of NTR is to be a cuck and watch the girl you love/crush cheat on you and enjoy it.
Except they have no emotional attachment to the girl, so for them, she just becomes like any other girl.
People B are divided into two categories.
Those who choose to watch the scene and those who don’t want to see it, and we'll split them 50/50 (even though it’s not logical).
Among People B, 1,250 players decide not to watch the scene, we'll call them People C.
1,250 players decide to watch the scene, we'll call them People D.
That leaves us with People D.
And once again, we'll split them 50/50, 625 People D watch the scene because it doesn't bother them (group 1.), we'll call them People D-1.
And we would then have 625 People D who watch the scene because they consider this feeling as NTR(group 2.), so their pleasure comes from that, they are People D-2.
So to summarize, just based on a hypothesis that takes numbers in your favor, out of the 10,000 original players, only 6.25% are "NTR-lovers".
Even using numbers that are extremely favorable to your argument, only 6.25% of the player base would actively engage with the scene as NTR-content.
And I've clearly exaggerated the numbers in favor of your vision because just the first split is normally not 50% (but more like 10%, and still) of the 10,000 potential players who would treat the girl harshly when they have the chance to treat her well at that exact moment.
If such a ridiculously small percentage of players consider this as NTR and take pleasure in it, does that mean it's an NTR scene or that it's a scene designed exclusively for "cucks" who enjoy NTR?
I strongly believe it’s not, and I think the majority of players who play the game would agree.
So, do you seriously think I would have bothered creating a scene like this just to attract some potential NTR-lovers who somehow ignored the fact that I explicitly stated 'There will be no NTR in this game'?
If my real goal was to appeal to NTR fans, don’t you think I would have been way better off just adding a "NETORARE (avoidable)" tag from the start?
(Especially knowing that the Netorare community is one of the most supportive of developers.)
Why would I waste my time hiding a secret scene just to please two or three NTR-lovers, when I could have openly embraced that audience and benefited from it instead?
The real problem is the narrative you're stuck in—you’re convincing yourself that this is a scene where "it’s rubbed in your face", that you’re a cuck watching a LI you like have sex right in front of you, and that the game is depicting you as a pathetic loser.
I could have agreed with this perspective if this scene appeared in every possible path, if players were forced to watch it, and if there was an NPC taunting you, saying something like: "Hey, loser, your former crush is fucking and you're just standing there watching?"
And I'm being completely honest about that.
To wrap up this long discussion, this is the only place where people get so obsessed over the slightest potential scene that might make them feel jealous—which in their mind automatically turns them into a cuck.
A game shows an LI being flirted with by someone other than the MC? "Game for cucks/NTR fans!!!"
A game gives you the choice between a NTR path and a non-NTR path? You tear it apart anyway.
A game features a path where the vast majority of players aren’t even emotionally attached to an ex-LI who has a sexual scene? "This is a scene made to attract cucks/NTR fans!!!"
Have you ever tried to question yourself? I’m not telling you to play games with NTR if you hate it—everyone has their own preferences.
But try to be critical of yourselves—does it really make sense to go into developers' threads just to tear them down because a scene isn’t to your taste or the game isn’t structured exactly how you want it?
And beyond that, maybe you should rethink your entire relationship with the term "cuck" whenever jealousy is involved. Because let me tell you— if you this make you look like strong, dominant alphas who refuse to be "cucks" or "beta males", you're wrong. It just makes you come across as deeply insecure about yourselves and some even see you as just incels.
Don’t take this as a personal attack, but really—try to be critical of yourselves. Living with this kind of mindset is, in all honesty, not healthy and not gonna help you.
