4.60 star(s) 354 Votes

Allenebs

Member
Oct 5, 2024
141
297
I'm downloading LS right now. And i will get back to you on that, once i see it. So far every times someone said a game looks as good a SH it turn out to not be the case (to me at least). I'll see^^
So by your logic, considering I think all of Carbidis' work looks like piles of steaming shit, I'm objectively right and that undermines your next argument, right?
LS dev is also more experienced, he have completed a game before. When you see the differences between the first and the second AVN of some devs you can tell how much it matter ( CF for example: DPC, Caribdis: the gap between their respective first game and they current one is huge, colossal even)
In regards to DPC, I'd argue his work has gotten progressively worse. It's universally agreed that Maya's model specifically has gotten worse. And the inconsistency is inarguable at this point. Go back and look at Acting Lessons and those models remained consistent throughout. Some characters models could be passed off as different characters just within the same update.
Of course, there will also always be peoples/devs faster than other too, no matter what. There are always someone somewhere who is better than you, right? It's true for everything.
Granted, but there are levels of what is acceptable and what's not. That's why companies have quotas and how they can calculate bonuses. If you have one person doing half the work of everyone else, they don't get a pass bc they have marginally better quality. That said, 80 per week isn't "bad," it's just definitely not good. There should be days where you're able to pump out that many renders on rare occasions. It shouldn't be something that consistent either. Some times you're going to have 500 renders in an update from one specific location and if you have another 500 renders from 25 different locations, that latter 500 is going to take significantly longer to stage. That's one consistent reason I can see dev times on VN's bloating so much - it's not abnormal for the writing/scripting to come second when that should be done before you even start. Allowing you to do all of the renders in one specific framing of a location at a time.
Something that can influence a lot too is how much work they put into assets and models. Do the devs just grab existent ones? Are they using them as it? Or are they putting work into customising them? Or maybe they created assets and models entirely themself? A lot of DAZ dev just re-use assets and models. SH probably too but they have shown that they like to create a lot by themself and modify heavily existent ones. To what extent i can't tell ofc but i feel like they do it quite a lot. When i play SH i never get, the well known feeling of "I have seen this models/assets hundreds of times in 50 others AVN".
As to reusing assets, we're at the point where we shouldn't be seeing many new locations that aren't just generic. It's really hard to reuse assets when you're setting a game up, but once it's established devs like DPC just start doing that shit to justify taking longer between updates. Does altering the frame of reference by 15 degrees really justify a month or more of delayed development? No, but people blindly lap that shit up as justification.

As to assets other devs have used, store bought or commissioned, several of the early locations are reused locations. Again though, this is one reason why I stress devs spend the time to establish their VN's BEFORE going to market. Much like a producer scouting locations before you begin shooting a movie. You don't want to be DPC, wasting months to add generic locations or slightly shift the field of view of one of your existing ones. The last thing you want are long, arbitrary delays bc you're going to a different location once and never reusing that location again like DPC did w/ the bbq.
But idk maybe i'm just blinded by a mild case of fanboysme, probably on final stage too lmao
My issue is more with how inconsistent people are on this website. SH SHOULD be held to it's own standard bc, unlike most games, this is a two person team. They'll rage about one dev taking 11 months while cradling the balls and deepthroating a dev whose taken 15 months.

This idea that upgrading hardware doesn't and shouldn't improve dev times are ridiculous when you see devs like Ocean parsing his improvements and showing us the data. The truth is, most of these guys aren't upgrading their hardware for developing their games... they're doing it for gaming, themselves. That's why these guys are upgrading every new iteration and not just going to the A6000. When you're paying $8000 for a pair of 5090s instead of $5500 for an A6000, that's a statement as to your priority. Even going from the 3090 to the 5090 isn't much of an improvement when you exclude the RTX specific workloads like Daz3d does. Now, if you're doing AI stuff as well... well, the A6000 is still the better option. If they were smart, instead of upgrading to 4090s, they should have built an additional rig w/ used 3090s. Then, upgraded one of those machines to an A6000. At that point, go crazy, get your 5090. Any additional rigs from there, I'd probably say just get 3090s.

We should hold all devs accountable, period. One thread shouldn't be a dumpster fire bitching about when the next update will be when the next has been in development for twice as long and is expected to be half the size. These devs should be wanting to get better, put out updates faster. There is no marketing industry pushing these games, so you need to make an immediate impression and do everything you can to stay on the tip of everyone's tongues to continue to grow your games reach.
 

Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
326
1,808
So by your logic, considering I think all of Carbidis' work looks like piles of steaming shit, I'm objectively right and that undermines your next argument, right?
No... from my point of view it just make you dishonest AF lmao. Eternum look amazing. Objectively EVEN if you dislike Honey select or the style of writing/game saying that the game visual quality is a "pile of shit" is absolute bollox.

Also, even if you disagree and don't like his game, it's still objectivly true that the visual difference between OIAL and Eternum is huge no matter what you think of them.

And i'm not even sure what you are trying to say? How Eternum have anything to do with finding a game who look as good as SH? I never said SH and Eternum look as good as each other. I would never compare Daz and HS games anyway. It's like comparing an anime with a tv show, it wouldn't make sense.

In regards to DPC, I'd argue his work has gotten progressively worse. It's universally agreed that Maya's model specifically has gotten worse.
Yeah what about no too? I re-played the first season last month mate, it look like crap, going back holy cow, it's not even the same game. ( To be clear i'm talking visual only here, not a general opinion about if the game is still as good or not) As for Maya she is fine? But i do concede to you her that her hands texture is a bit weird, that being said it's just a small thing in the whole game it really doesn’t mean anything.

As for the rest of your post it feel like more like you are ranting about DPC and Ocean than anything else so i'm just gonna, mostly, ignore it.

My issue is more with how inconsistent people are on this website
Nah they are very consistent if you ask me. Always bitching about how the next update is not fast enough or that a game doesn’t have enough NTR^^ /jk

These devs should be wanting to get better, put out updates faster.
I'm certain that they are, especially after last update. I'm sure they also understand how SH popularity would skyrocket if they could be even just twice as fast. Being lazy on this would be really stupid from them, financially. They are no good logical explanation for them to drag their feets with a gem like SH imo (if you think they are). The only reason who would be (logical in this specific scenario) is that they just don't give a rats about money in which case you can't really blame them for anything. If it's their genuine beliefs ofc (i'm like that irl too so i could understand, money mean nothing to me, like really igf at all) and not just a pretence for a free out of jail card.

the next update will be when the next has been in development for twice as long and is expected to be half the size.
It's true for 0.6 but it won't be for 0.7. They are twice as fast as they were last update if they keep that pace until the end. And they won't be increasting the dev time. The previous update as far is we know was just a one time accident (as long as it dosn't happen again) shit happen sometimes, what can you do.

Anyway, i don't disagree that it would be nice if they were faster and i hope that they will be/become faster in the futur. But there is no need to raise the red flags, throw the "M" word (milking) and shit. It's fine. As i said, as long as they work consistenly, communicate well and regulary, show that they doing their best and that they are invested (which they are imo) and don't do anything that look shady, it's fine.
 
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Wonder Wolf

Member
Mar 3, 2018
301
3,538
I'm downloading LS right now. And i will get back to you on that, once i see it. So far every times someone said a game looks as good a SH it turn out to not be the case (to me at least). I'll see^^


Of course, there will also always be peoples/devs faster than other too, no matter what. There are always someone somewhere who is better than you, right? It's true for everything.

LS dev is also more experienced, he have completed a game before. When you see the differences between the first and the second AVN of some devs you can tell how much it matter ( CF for example: DPC, Caribdis: the gap between their respective first game and they current one is huge, colossal even)

Something that can influence a lot too is how much work they put into assets and models. Do the devs just grab existent ones? Are they using them as it? Or are they putting work into customising them? Or maybe they created assets and models entirely themself? A lot of DAZ dev just re-use assets and models. SH probably too but they have shown that they like to create a lot by themself and modify heavily existent ones. To what extent i can't tell ofc but i feel like they do it quite a lot. When i play SH i never get, the well known feeling of "I have seen this models/assets hundreds of times in 50 others AVN".

But idk maybe i'm just blinded by a mild case of fanboysme, probably on final stage too lmao

Don't listen to me too much, i'm just a old man :(
I agree with you, you're not wrong, otherwise you'd make me also an old man, and I'm not even thirty yet. ;)

Law School and Tides of Succession doesn't have the high quality renders Summer Heat has for me but everyone has a different perception, that's just how it is for me.

In terms of development time, Summer Heat is actually solidly in the middle range, plus the render quality and the unique looking girls give them more credit in my case as a follower since week one february 2022.

I also agree that I haven't seen anyone like Sophie or Bree or other SH girls at other AVNs who looked similar to them, as both were designed from scratch by Robison in Blender, unlike Quinn from BAD, for example, where it seems like every AVN has a character with her DAZ3D assets.

As I understand it, Robison is the one responsible for the renders, which would also match my information that Npx is doing more of the communication, as he even joined our fan server.
 

Dryme

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2022
1,261
2,473
I agree with you, you're not wrong, otherwise you'd make me also an old man, and I'm not even thirty yet. ;)

Law School and Tides of Succession doesn't have the high quality renders Summer Heat has for me but everyone has a different perception, that's just how it is for me.

In terms of development time, Summer Heat is actually solidly in the middle range, plus the render quality and the unique looking girls give them more credit in my case as a follower since week one february 2022.

I also agree that I haven't seen anyone like Sophie or Bree or other SH girls at other AVNs who looked similar to them, as both were designed from scratch by Robison in Blender, unlike Quinn from BAD, for example, where it seems like every AVN has a character with her DAZ3D assets.

As I understand it, Robison is the one responsible for the renders, which would also match my information that Npx is doing more of the communication, as he even joined our fan server.
We are fanboys, our opinion cannot be objective..
 
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Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
326
1,808
Law School and Tides of Succession doesn't have the high quality renders Summer Heat has for me but everyone has a different perception, that's just how it is for me.
Only played 10 min of LS right now so i cant have a real final opinion on visual but i already know that as a game it's not gonna be for me... still i gonna have to force myself to play a bit more to be objective on it's visual^^

I'm not even thirty yet
Oh you are a baby, that's so cute :D

We are fanboys, our opinion cannot be objective..
Hey! ....well yes but also no. I think i'm pretty objective and partial. I try to apply hard logic to everything and never dismiss something even if it's not for me or i don't agree or let's my likes and preferences blind me. I liked to give far chance to everything.

Like LS here, sure i kinda want to drop the game already but i'm gonna push trough a little bit more. We never know. Just two week ago for example, i tried Wildcats for the first time: also 10 min into the game i was 1sec away from uninstalling it honestly, the beginning is very off putting but i kept going and by the end i was fully invested and i absolutely loved the game (but is still gave my feedback on how the aliasing and skins textures were pretty bad lol. And this happened to me with AVNs more time than i count so who knows maybe i'll like LS tomorrow^^

PS for what i said about Wildcats: the aliasing problem is mostly fixed by ep2 and it seems that the skins textures gonna be updated next episode, from what i saw in the previews anyway, i don't want to scare away people from trying this game :]
 
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TonyMurray

Engaged Member
Apr 8, 2024
3,369
5,748
This may be off topic in terms of the game, but since it has been discussed - this renders/day graph just came up on the LS thread and I thought I'd share for the comparisons. I don't have any details with regards to the timeframe (whether it's total game or last/current update, etc.) or what criteria led to games being selected, and therefore what other games are not shown and might otherwise appear on the list, etc. So take it with a pinch of salt, and all the usual caveats.
1743414146788.png
 

Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
326
1,808
This may be off topic in terms of the game, but since it has been discussed - this renders/day graph just came up on the LS thread and I thought I'd share for the comparisons. I don't have any details with regards to the timeframe (whether it's total game or last/current update, etc.) or what criteria led to games being selected, and therefore what other games are not shown and might otherwise appear on the list, etc. So take it with a pinch of salt, and all the usual caveats.
View attachment 4698783
Summer heat is listed as 7.7 renders a day on the graph. But 80 divided by 7 is 11.5. So it's not accurate of the current average.

Whether it's 7 or 11 anyway, the game is still in the middle/high middle, so yeah not "extremely slow"^^
 

demon79yu

Newbie
Aug 20, 2021
70
180
Every time I play Westview Academy and Summer Heat it always give me satisfying and sufficient contend.So is making 6.5 renders per day a decent update-speed for a delicate game I guess?

BTW,looks like LS's developer is a maniac(y)
 

Buki

Newbie
May 6, 2017
62
66
Every time I play Westview Academy and Summer Heat it always give me satisfying and sufficient contend.So is making 6.5 renders per day a decent update-speed for a delicate game I guess?

BTW,looks like LS's developer is a maniac(y)
Or maybe the LS's developer owns a huge amount of power? Or the other developers don't know something to stamp renderings like that?) I'm curious how many renderings the same PinkCake or Ocean makes.
 
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fedecruzic

Newbie
Dec 21, 2020
55
336
Summer heat is listed as 7.7 renders a day on the graph. But 80 divided by 7 is 11.5. So it's not accurate of the current average.

Whether it's 7 or 11 anyway, the game is still in the middle/high middle, so yeah not "extremely slow"^^
it is much closer to the bottom than to the top, so its much closer to extremely slow, than extremely fast
 

Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
326
1,808
Or maybe the LS's developer owns a huge amount of power? Or the other developers don't know something to stamp renderings like that?) I'm curious how many renderings the same PinkCake or Ocean makes.
I'm playing LS right now, all the assets and models seems re-used (from what i have seen so far). It look like what i would call a minimal efforts AVN too. Clothes doesn’t looks the best, textures and a lot of models are meh. And the overall quality is not the best. One of the earlier girl you met have a tattoo on her upper torso and it's so blurry you can't even read what it's saying *facepalm*
It also suffer for the very common(in lazy avns) mild case of nobody wears bra because devs can't be bother to fit models properly and to pay attention to details. The facial expression feels out dated. And the photography and artistry of the renders are almost inexistent. Don’t get me wrong i'm harsh because i compare it to SH quality but otherwise LS it's visually okish i guess. The writing is also very mid and the game lack a bit of "soul" imo. Anyway taking the easy way probably help a lot at chuggings renders quantity. Overall while i'm a bit harsh here, it's not so bad to play, i'll probably finish the 2 episodes. It's an ok game.

Ps: Sorry Tony i don't agree with you on LS :(

it is much closer to the bottom than to the top, so its much closer to extremely slow, than extremely fast
No it's not? And I never said it was fast but it's not slow no. It's fine. No matters how many time you guys try to spam it on this thread.
If they hadn't drop the ball last update probably nobody would be saying anything about it right know.
 

Meabe37

Member
Mar 9, 2023
326
1,808
Damn she looks really freaking good for a side girl. This game ahah.

Random side girl casually obliterating any main girls from any other AVN.

She could be even more, I would have liked to have her as a main girl in the camp but sadly we don't have enough beds, or if we kick out Helen out of the house and she sleeps outside with the Wendigos and bears. Lol.
The problem is that we are almost gonna wish that for all the side girls given how good everyone looks lol, it's impossible sadly :cry:
 
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soprano31

Engaged Member
Nov 12, 2021
3,630
21,702
March Special Renders - Becca Set

You know, I feel like it's my duty as Parks & Rec to make sure you enjoy your stay in the forest today..."



To be continued.



We decided to try something different for Becca's first time in the specials, a little glimpse into the future. Hope you enjoy!
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Really thanks Wonder Wolf to make my eyeballs fall out,my blood boil,and induce an erection that lasts for weeks :love::love:
boner-binoculars.gif
 

Paynne

Active Member
Oct 31, 2018
573
10,720
She could be even more, I would have liked to have her as a main girl in the camp but sadly we don't have enough beds, or if we kick out Helen out of the house and she sleeps outside with the Wendigos and bears. Lol.
I agree with you. Hey Northpx there's always the option of killing Helen and replacing her with Becca at the camp, just saying ;)
 
4.60 star(s) 354 Votes